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MASB32 today(June 2005)

Printed From: BMPT Forum
Category: Boats (In alphabetical order)
Forum Name: MASB32
Forum Description: Discussion on MASB32
URL: http://www.bmpt.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=72
Printed Date: 24 July 2019 at 5:20am


Topic: MASB32 today(June 2005)
Posted By: Christian
Subject: MASB32 today(June 2005)
Date Posted: 17 June 2005 at 2:10pm

 

 

 

 

MASB 32 is up and running with new Ford 2725E 136hp diesels.She lives in Gibraltar and is cared for by Hector Sheppard-Capurro who also has HDML1301 and RTTL2753(Vosper).She was saved from the breakers recently after having served as yacht "Fervent", a smuggler, shark fishing boat "Crismar" in Puerto Banus (Marbella)and a fish & chips shop "The Codfather" in Estepona.Her current name is "32".




Replies:
Posted By: Pioneer
Date Posted: 17 June 2005 at 2:19pm

Hello Christian

Surely you must do something about that name! "32"? or is the number of the ex Fish and Chip shop's berth?

Regards 



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Pioneer - Forum Moderator


Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 17 June 2005 at 2:24pm
Name suggestions welcome.Itried to get him to call her MASB Love,he spends his whole time mucking about on her!


Posted By: Pioneer
Date Posted: 17 June 2005 at 9:01pm

Hello again Christian

To be serious for one moment, I would suggest that an original name of "32" could be resurrected-that of "Fervent". HMS Fervent was the name given to the Coastal Forces base at Ramsgate UK during WW2. You may know that several MASB's, by then recassified as MGB's, were operated from there- I'm not sure whether "32" was one of them.

Regards



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Pioneer - Forum Moderator


Posted By: alross2
Date Posted: 20 June 2005 at 12:25am
Any chance some current photos of her could be uploaded here?

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Al Ross II


Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 23 June 2005 at 12:23pm
Have noticed MASB32 is incorrectly posted as being up for sale in view a boat section;price of £15,000.00 would have been formulated prior to purchase of engines and anyway she is not currently for sale.There are however some pics which is nice,and some errors;these boats had 3 x Napier Sea-Lions,not 2,and max speed given is pessimistic(probably 'cos some slacker forgot to install one engine).I did post some(3)pics of her underway in this section (masb32-Jun 05)but there appears to be a problem with the upload function presently.


Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 23 June 2005 at 12:26pm
Re.name,If she gets a name as opposed to her pennant no. I am assured it will indeed be Fervent,which is as quite rightly pointed out the name of the base from which she operated.


Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 07 April 2006 at 6:32pm

I finally got round to posting a pic.Unbelievable hull lines spoiled by boxy deckhouse,am trying to persuade the old man to get it rebuilt to original spec.



Posted By: Pioneer
Date Posted: 07 April 2006 at 9:32pm

Hello Christian

This shot certainly does show the stunning lines of the Hull - although the Awning does tend to focus (to my eyes at least) on the cabin structure - it is still a beautiful craft. Try to get your father to go the whole Hog - as per ex HMS Gay Archer

Regards



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Pioneer - Forum Moderator


Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 12 April 2006 at 6:31pm

More pics taken today 12/04/06



Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 23 May 2006 at 7:31pm
MA/SB 32 will shortly be on the market for £50k,thought I'd let forum users know beforehand as dad will prefer to sell to an enthusiast and may take offers.Message them to me.


Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 07 June 2006 at 6:17pm
Her history in pictures now edited into post 1.


Posted By: AndyS
Date Posted: 10 July 2006 at 11:40am
Christain

Do you have any performance records for her in her current configuration, eg discplacement (or draft fore and aft), power (at engine or shaft, revs and measured speed? Also what gear boxes and props are fitted? Is it on original shaft and  P-Brackets?

Regards
AndyS


Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 10 July 2006 at 12:34pm

Hi Andy

Her new 2725 6-cyl diesels are normally aspirated giving 136hp @ 2600rpm with 385Nm torque.She has new 2.5:1 boxes and the original 25 x 21 props on the original outer shafts.She does about 12kts as is,and would likely do 14kts by changing the props to 24 x 24.She is absurdly light for a 63ft boat,probably about 15-20 tons,you will likely come up with a more accurate figure if you study the pictures of her and extrapolate the current draught from them by comparing her service weight to her service waterline,and her current weight to her current waterline.

Regards,Christian



Posted By: AndyS
Date Posted: 10 July 2006 at 12:48pm
Christian

Would you be able to measure the freeboard from the bow and transom from the top of the deck to the waterline, and estimate the deck thickness. This would let me calculate a displacement and centre of gravity. Also if the original props are still fitted then there may be BPBCo number rand I might be able to identify them.

Over time I would like to fill in some bits of the performance curves for the BPBCo vessels, especially as they are not operated at full load, full power and with the restrictors off as in service. Also many of the claims made for a lot of these boats is rather unreliable as it is seldom backed up with accurate measurements and a trials weight / condition, so I am trying to slowly fill some gaps in, when I get time!

Best regards
AndyS



Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 10 July 2006 at 1:00pm

Hi Andy

Her weight is apparently more like 12-15tons,will measure freeboard on Wednesday and let you know.

Regards,Christian.

p.s.price was dropped to £35k to accomodate a buyer's budget as it then was,but as no deposit has since been received she is essentially still on the market.

p.p.s.she is the last seaworthy Whaleback in Europe at the moment.



Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 12 July 2006 at 11:58am

Hi Andy

Measurements are:

sea level to flat bearing surface of (original) bow fitting 1.92m

sea level to deck on transom centreline 1.37m 

Deck has 3/4" marine ply over original timbers,bow fitting rests at original height but additional 19mm to be subtracted from figure aft. 



Posted By: The Pom
Date Posted: 07 November 2006 at 12:38am

I purchased Fervent on 31st March 1966 from Penton Hook Yach Basin, Staines Lane, Chertsey, Surrey for 3,750 pounds sterling. I subsequently sailed her to Gibraltar with my wife Margaret, Son John 5, and daughters Angela 4 and Libby 3 on board for the whole, somewhat eventful, journey.

For those interested, there is an article, with six photos, of S32 "in action" on page 139 of the June 1942 edition of The Motorboat and Yachting.

There were two versions of this "Short Whaleback". One for the Royal Navy powered by two Marine Rolls-Royce Merlins of 1,100 bhp each and the other for the Royal Air Force powered by three Napier Sea-Lion engines of 500 bhp each. Six were built for the Navy in 1940 which served as MGBs sometimes working with the RAF as ASRs. Up to eighty were built for the RAF. The designed speed with the three Napier Sea-Lions was 36.5 knots at 2,450 rpm. (Fervent was fitted with three Perkins S6Ms with 2:1 reduction gearboxes swinging 23.5 x 23 inch props)

I registered Fervent with Lloyds and carved her number into the deck beam immediately above the forward companion way. My son John, daughter Angela and I flew to Malaga in November 2005, hired a car and drove to Gibraltar where we spent the day with Christian's father Hector looking over 32. The deck beam on which I had carved Fervent's number had been cut away. I have several photos of Fervent under way and at anchor.

I thoroughly recommend the book Fast Boats and Flying Boats, a biography of Hubert Scott-Paine, by Adrian Rance. (ISBN 1-85455-026-8) which gives a VERY comprehensive history of this class of boat.



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Peter W


Posted By: The Pom
Date Posted: 07 November 2006 at 4:02am
Sorry, that should have been November 2004 not 2005.

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Peter W


Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 07 November 2006 at 10:38am

Hello The Pom

Of the several versions of 63ft Whaleback produced MA/SB 32 is one of the MA/SB 22-39 batch (short deckhouse) which oddly enough were built with two Napier Sea Lions giving 23 knots. I say oddly because 32 certainly does have evidence of a third shaft, a bit of a mystery. Her ID was confirmed by historian Philip Simons once her yard number had been located on the inside top of her stempost (her previous owner Gordon Bland always maintained she was an ex-RAF HSL, although I do not know where he got this information from). I had not heard of any 63ft boats being powered by RR Merlins, this is fascinating news as I thought only certain 70ft Whalebacks had these.

Regards,Christian. 



Posted By: The Pom
Date Posted: 07 November 2006 at 11:46am

Hi Christian,

Following are two extracts from the article on page 139 of the June 1942 edition of The Motor Boat and Yachting. The accompanying photos clearly show S32 painted on the foredeck. (This edition of the mag. was on board Fervent when I bought her and was partly used as provenance when registering her at Lloyds). The article describes  a two hour trip on S32 in the vicinity of the Goodwins - close to the Ramsgate base.

These motor boats are now primarily employed by the Navy for rescuing airmen from the sea. They are of the now familiar 63 ft Scott-Paine type, manned by two sub-lieutenants R.N.V.R. and eight naval ratings. Nearly half the hull is occupied by three Napier engines; the crew sleep aboard and the officers ashore.......

With the three motors turning at 2,000 r.p.m. we made some 27 knots on a southerly course under the lee of the land ..........

The original three shafts and props were in Fervent when I bought her, connected to three Perkins S6Ms.

A quick phone call to Editorial enquiries at M B & Y on +44 20 7261 5333 will secure you a photocopy of page 139 or email them at: mailto:mby@ipcmedia.com - mby@ipcmedia.com for a copy. Ask for Sue.

I believe that only six out of eighty plus of these craft were fitted with two RR Merlins.

Visit: http://www.dynagen.co.za/eugene/whale.html - http://www.dynagen.co.za/eugene/whale.html for corroborating text.

My guess, after quite a bit of research, is that MASB 32's yard number would have been 1571. Am I right?

I believe that my son John has emailed you re Fervent's future. I'm sure we will be in touch.

Cheers,

Peter

 



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Peter W


Posted By: The Pom
Date Posted: 07 November 2006 at 11:57am

Hi Christian,

Me again.... The drawings of 32 which your Dad had pinned up below decks clearly show the centre engine driving through a V Drive to the centre shaft. I only have a photo of that drawing which I took on my visit during November 2004. The photo was taken in poor light and is a bit "grainy" but I can still make out the centre engine tilted forward to a V Drive. The wing engines were direct drive.

Cheers,

 

Peter



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Peter W


Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 07 November 2006 at 11:59am

Hi Peter

We have the MBY article, many thanks. As I mentioned, it is beyond doubt that 32 had three shafts. Whilst Eugene's homepage is very well put together and a valuable aid, I believe this information contained therein is flawed as I have it from more reliable sources that the 63ft boats built for the RN used Napier Sea Lions (not RR Merlins), whatever the number of them installed. The 64ft series 1 ASR shipped to South Africa did have Merlins (as did certain 63ft hulls in build for export sales), I believe she was called Malmok and this may be causing the confusion. I will ask Dad what her yard number is as I do not have that information. Very glad to have touched base with you and happy to try to help sort out her interesting history. 

B Rgds, Christian.

p.s. the rather misleading drawing pinned up was a later "long deckhouse" version, very similar to the RAF HSLs. 

p.p.s Yes, 1571.   



Posted By: gibdan
Date Posted: 23 April 2007 at 7:44pm

MASB 32 this afternoon.



Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 24 April 2007 at 11:57am

Wow, That didn't take long!

 I spent a very enjoyable beer tasting weekend in Gib with a few (ship)mates, and on monday Hector took us out for a sunny cruise.

Well spotted Gibdan and thanyou for the photos.

regards  Clive..



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masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/


Posted By: gibdan
Date Posted: 24 April 2007 at 6:21pm

My pleasure Clive.

Daniel



Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 24 April 2007 at 10:34pm

Hi,

 

Very nice way to spend a sunny afternoon indeed, spent the weekend locking out boaters onto the Medway, not the same as Gib of course but weather very good. Despite working in the marina, don't actaully get out on the water much! ah well, I must make more of an effort especially on our working coastal craft, MTB 102 is in this neck of the woods in May so hope to see her then, 

 

John 



Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 18 May 2007 at 12:51pm
Christian, as I have indicated it appears to me that the "S" is the M.A.S.B. designation, they were then used for A.S.R. by the Navy, it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that as Napier Sea Lions were mainly an R.A.F. engine that a conversion was done to change them to a more Navy used engine like Packard Merlins x2 which most navy Mech's would have been trained on in any case


Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 18 May 2007 at 2:44pm

Hi Tramontana

Philip has told me the following additional news;

Just read that the S Pennant was allocated to Coastal Motor boats - MA/SBs - MGBs - & SGBs

Never seen it carried though, but maybe it was just some local decision or the other reason I sent last week.

 

Regarding the engines, to my knowledge only the boats built for export were fitted with two Merlins (e.g. MGB 45) the boats ordered by the RN were fitted with two Napiers (as opposed to three for the RAF), except that MASB 32 certainly had three, here is a photo of the central shaft position when Dad bought her;

Two intriguing peculiarities at no extra cost.

Rgds, Christian.



Posted By: AndyS
Date Posted: 18 May 2007 at 2:58pm
My understanding is that Christian is correct in what he is saying.

Christian, please confirm whether that is a centre V-drive a it is hard to make out.

Many thanks
AndyS


Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 18 May 2007 at 4:28pm

This could all be unravelling a mystery as it does make sense that if she was converted to ASR then putting the third engine in and swapping the other two  could well have happened due to the RN being trained on napiers not RRs. this also explains why build records say 2 RRs and Motorboat and Yachting says 3 Napiers..

 It does look from marks and holes in the bearers that the centre engine drove through a v-drive as the mounting holes are too close together for an engine, also the shaft log is further foreward ( you can actually see the possible  v-drive mountings on the centre bearers and possible engine mountings further aft on the (inner) outer bearers)



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masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/


Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 19 May 2007 at 2:02pm
After what I have read I am convinced that the "S" is the designation for a M.A.S.B. type, it is highly unlikely that if a boat was on special duties ie covert they would advertise it by putting a large "S" on it, at a later date they are said to have been converted for A.S.R. duties which could have been the cover for other work where speed is  important like "lets get the hell out of here" after dropping somebody/something off and a third engine was fitted, again the third engine might of been a special "quiet engine" for a silent approach. The part on special duties is of course guess work on my part, hopefully at sometime in the future we may get a definitive answer from somebody who served but a lot of the Old Chaps still feel they are bound by the Official Secrets Act so we may never know what exactly Special Duties meant in this case. 


Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 27 May 2007 at 10:27pm

MASB 32 set off this morning from Gib, unfortunately she had to turn back as she was taking on more water than the bilge pumps could cope with.

 I'll be looking into getting her shipped back as deck cargo, I probably should have done that in the first place!



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masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/


Posted By: northeastuser
Date Posted: 28 May 2007 at 12:21am

Could the ‘S’ in someway be related to the old ‘S’ for Seagull designation carried by ASR vessels during the war? E.G call sign of ‘Seagull 32’ (for example S32 Painted on the fore deck to aid recognition from the air as an ASR vessel)

Sorry to hear about her current troubles and hope its sorted out for the best.



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Posted By: S R Wilson
Date Posted: 28 May 2007 at 11:34am

Clive ,

That's a real shame. Apart from the expence it would have been wonderful to see her home under her own power.

 



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SRW
"Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy" WSC.



Posted By: Magic Fingers
Date Posted: 28 May 2007 at 2:02pm
Now you know why 102 has got six good auto pumps in her. She is o.k sitting still but takes a lot of water in on the dry bits when the bow wave makes them wet. I don't think they were much different when new.

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If it ain't broke don't fix it!


Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 28 May 2007 at 4:51pm

Like other's sorry to read of the problems on board S32, safety alway's comes first. (GOOD DECISION) when you move into the Atlantic out of the relative sheltered area of the Med you get the full force of the Atlantic as there is nothing to stop it coming from the States, big roller's, I am presuming that because of your slow speed and the big roller's you were "Digging in" most of the time, then you have the Bay of Biscay to contend with and S32 is a good boat but very low profile, fast boat hulls do not behave very well when going slow, so hopefully the lad's involved with the "Ambra" will have second thought's about sailing her home until she is really sound. In regards to the "S" in my view it goes back to her M.A.S.B. days and she just kept her pennant number to save confusion with M.T.B. 32 which was a Vosper boat, look at the confusion between M.T.B.102 and H.S.L.102 even the Navy News got it wrong when they printed the wrong picture a few editions ago, I was on one of the Guard Boat's on the first Tall Ships out of Newcastle when the Port Control called up Jupiter which caused all sorts of confusion as there was two of them in the river at the time, H.M.S. Jupiter and the North Sea Ferry Jupiter!! 



Posted By: northeastuser
Date Posted: 28 May 2007 at 5:14pm

The Ambra won't be going anywhere if she's not safe to do so.

  My life on the line!!



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Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 28 May 2007 at 6:11pm

Yes, It is a shame that she won't be travelling all the way home on her keel, but she will be doing the Southampton to Lowestoft bit so that is some compensation.

when in the marina her pumps cut in for a little bit every now and then but on the (calm) day I went out, the water was flowing aft from the bows like a bath tap flowing full bore.

 The day she set sail the sea was approx a metre and the 4 pumps and manual bilge could not keep up. I can only imagine up the coast of Portugal things would only get a bit 'hairy'.

 The situation is a bit annoying but I would rather not put anyone in a  dodgey situation or risk having only a life raft left at the end of the day.

 That said the other annoying factor is that if I had shipped her when I first bought her then It would not have worked out that much more expencive! mind you there never was such a thing a non-expencive boat or a cheap to run classic anything, put the two together and I doubt you will ever really 'win'!  The cheapest way to 'do' a classic boat is buy the best (normally most expencive) one available same as cars..

 Anyway I'll keep you all posted as to further movements. As for the the 'S' prefix I can see how it would aviod confusion, but how does this tally with the fact that the pictures of 22,24,31,33,35 and 38 do not have the 'S' perhaps this is why 24 (with a short deckhouse) is described as MGB 24 (unless this is what she became) perhaps the pictures of '32 are early (I only have 2) and the 'S' was later removed?



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masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/


Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 28 May 2007 at 6:42pm

Clive I appreciate how disappointed you are however having been at sea for many years I feel you made the right decision and I was on a lot bigger boats than yours, it can be a very unpredictable area as bigger ships than yours have found. It is a bit a bit of a puzzle regarding the "S" and at some point the Navy decided that M.A.S.B.'S were a waste of time and the boat's were diverted to other uses, so I suppose it depended on what they were eventually used for was the decider on there pennant designation. As the hulls were basically "utility" they could have been converted into anything including putting a third engine in, during the War expense was not a factor, if it hade to be done then it was done. Do the pictures you have show her in her M.A.S.B. role? I have a picture of a M.A.S.B. S05 in that role withthe big S on it.



Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 28 May 2007 at 6:56pm

Glad to hear it northeastuser, S32 is in a lot better condition than Ambra appears to be from what I have seen, you could learn a lot by talking to Clive and save yourself a lot of heartache, his advice will be invaluable before you set out, even the Med is not alway's the  millpond the holiday brochure's make it out to be.



Posted By: northeastuser
Date Posted: 28 May 2007 at 7:38pm

Point well taken for the Ambra.

If they take on water forward when moving it could explain why her forward bilges were so wet, over the years perhaps the continual soaking helped to rot the planks from the inside out.

Oh well, may as well learn from it with the Ambra. I will try and find a way to fix it.

Unless someone wants to gift us enough cash to ship her home, we have no choice other than to bring the Ambra home by sea. If we don’t try then she will be broken up. Simple as that.

Clive, any advice?



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Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 28 May 2007 at 9:21pm

 '32 was in a better position than Ambra with engines she is stripped of excess weight and her planks are hard although the water does flood in.

 Ambra is further away from England but as you have already started a very big job I would still budget for shipping from Gib. You must bear in mind theese boats are over 60 years old. I know I was doing the contrary but I was probably only saving £2-3k on £10k shipping, it will probably cost me more than I was saving now as berthing in Gib is not cheap.

 You must also bear in mind A skipper may refuse to do the passage so add up all the possible costs ,  slip, hardstanding work on engines you don't eventually want, diesel ,skipper flights etc etc. Take all that away from £20k and the margin is probably not that big, you may then end up getting her shipped anyway-just as I am having to!

 I know this could all be a bit late but my posts on page 8 and 10 of the MTB 506 say the same. I hope for all involved with 506 that things work out well but although there is a 'pot' of money dont be afraid to cut your losses if needs be and look for something elce (RSL or something closer to home) before it all goes.

 Advice is a hard thing to give as it all depends on how much disposable cash there is, also my only experience is of broads cruisers and I would tell anyone without a lot of spare money they have no other use for not to go near anything wooden, especially a bargain!   also sometimes giving advice is not a good thing as if you think with your heart and not your head people will not listen anyway!! (bear in mind a few people advised me regarding '32 but I still bought her)



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masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/


Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 28 May 2007 at 11:03pm

Tramontana,

 The best picture of '32 is on page 1 of this topic I do have a better copy with the whole transom but it is the same picture. The other is not a great photo it shows her from the front riding up a wave.

any chance of a copy of S05? she would have been built 1938 and the same shape as MTB 5. is that correct? this does make me think 'S' simply stood for submarine...



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masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/


Posted By: northeastuser
Date Posted: 28 May 2007 at 11:15pm

Well assuming we can ‘fix her up’ properly there are no costs to bring her back except fuel and food for crew. Your talking to her skipper. Just don’t ask for references lol. (or tell the wife)

All things said and done its my standard of repairs. If something goes wrong while she’s on the way home I don’t want to read about it in an email or the paper. I want to be there to know that everything possible was done to save ship and crew. Call me a coward but I don’t think I could live with myself if anyone else got hurt. So as you can see I will make sure that everything possible is done maker it a safe journey home. Im Constantly thinking worse case .

Being a mechanic im confident I can keep the engines running. As long as she goes forwards and not sideways I’ll be happy.

What the budget does not take into consideration is that fact that yes we could have her shipped, but then we would still have to spend all the cash anyway to get her into the condition we want.

As we all know working on a vessel on Malta is cheaper. So it makes sense to do the work and try and bring her home. If we do have to have her shipped, well at least the work was done cheep!



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Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 29 May 2007 at 12:06am

unless you travel home uninsured which I think you can but you will not be allowed into cirtain marinas, then the insurers will want to see a cv or skippers licence.

 I am an engineer (of sorts) I also know a (little) bit about building and maintaining fiberglass and wooden boats I am also a bit of a demon at bodgeing and patching. because of my boatbuilding knowledge I would not try to rebuild a boat as specilised as a MTB without an expert with me every day. I would, however, replace a few planks but it would take longer. If frames and timbers need replacing then that is a different level entirely.

 I think it is excellent that you have the confidence to tackle this, carpentry (to a degree) can possibly be learnt from a book. boat building knowlege is gained via experience. as you recognise, a boat can be a dangerous thing as can the Atlantic!

 I recon it may be an idea to get the surveyor to see the work you are doing before you finish. I am sure whatever you do it will be the right thing..



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masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/


Posted By: northeastuser
Date Posted: 29 May 2007 at 12:19am

Oh we have a surveyor holding my hand!! And yes the necessary D.O.T. skippers paperwork will be in place, all legal and insured etc.

I would not even attempt to leave harbour without the right paperwork. In triplicate and the language of every country I intend to pass!

I know of people who have done so, only to have the authorities track them down 300miles away and take thee vessel off them. The rules are there to save lives, I have no problem with that.



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Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 29 May 2007 at 11:16am
There is one thing for sure northeastuser your every movement will be tracked in the Med and you will most probably be boarded by the R.N. on your approach to Gib and searched, things are a bit tense at the moment and Gib radar will be watching you and what you do especially if you call into N.Africa, I think Clive summed it up perfectly when he wrote that "you don't want to be left with just a liferaft for your efforts" or something like that.


Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 29 May 2007 at 11:27am
Re early M.A.S.B.Clive I can't send it through this site as it is to large apparently. if you wish me to still send it leave your E-mail address on the Private Messenger , yours appears to be full.


Posted By: northeastuser
Date Posted: 29 May 2007 at 11:32am

“boarded by the R.N”

I will be in touch with them before I leave asking for an escort!!

Or at least asking if they have a vessel I could follow!!

I’ll be no where near north Africa.

Anyway its all academic if she doesn’t float.

So is anyone putting odds on Ambra making it back? Id be up for a little bet.



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Posted By: S R Wilson
Date Posted: 29 May 2007 at 11:37am

Billy,

I have already had "a little bet" that is continuing. That little bet has lots of 0s in it so you had better get her back on her own keel and in grey. Like you said your life depends on it!!!



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SRW
"Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy" WSC.



Posted By: northeastuser
Date Posted: 29 May 2007 at 11:44am

Yes sir/boss. So if im skipper does that make you admiral?

 P.s you part own the 1262 now as well.My gift to the O.W.B.C



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Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 29 May 2007 at 12:02pm
Diesel is only 18p a litre in North Africa and you will need to carry a few 45gallon drums on board just in case, when they are empty you can always use them for floatation assist if things go wrong! Clive I have just had a look at the picture on page 1, it appears she is operating in a dual role as she has scramble nets fitted as well as the empty depth charge racks behind them which have not been removed, alongside the wheelhouse she appears to have a depth charge in the rack, I wonder if she kept this dual role throughout her A.S.R. duties which could account for her retaining the "S"  


Posted By: northeastuser
Date Posted: 29 May 2007 at 12:05pm
18p per liter..erm ok that changes things,anywhere you'd recomend?

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Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 29 May 2007 at 12:24pm
Tunisia apparently, you can alway's check with Christian the price of diesel at Gib, but of course its fluctuating wildley at the moment 


Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 29 May 2007 at 1:53pm
Diesel in Gib is 40p at the shell and 50p at BP. I do have some in a 1000 litre tank, may let it go for 39p!

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masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/


Posted By: S R Wilson
Date Posted: 29 May 2007 at 3:14pm
Originally posted by northeastuser northeastuser wrote:

Yes sir/boss. So if im skipper does that make you admiral?

 P.s you part own the 1262 now as well.My gift to the O.W.B.C

No it just make me even more broke than when I started. Of course as skipper in open waters you will be qualified to conduct marriage ceremonies. Proably won't even need a licence. Money making scheme for OWBC?

As to 1262 does that mean that there is more than one hole, as described by Clive, that we have to keep thowing money into to keep it afloat.

 



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SRW
"Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy" WSC.



Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 29 May 2007 at 6:03pm
If you throw money into 1262 it will go straight through even a £5 note, unfortunatly she is too far gone, that is unless you have loads of money and then you can rebuild anything, fortunatly she is not the last of the breed otherwise it would be a different matter, I have never known a Museum that allows boat's to fall to bit's like Irvine does it's a disgrace. It is a very macabre place with some of the marine exhibit's.


Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 31 May 2007 at 6:23pm
Clive, when I looked at the photo of S32 a number of things struck me, she appeared to be dual role with a scramble net fitted (a.s.r.style) and still had the depth charge racks fitted with a depth charge in the for'ad one, the other thing that struck me was that she is quite heavily gunned up, I have gone back into my reference books and it appears that "The day war broke out" there were no M.G.B.'s, there was only M.T.B.'s and M.A.S.B.'s. It was realised that for the M.T.B.'s to be able to attack a convoy protected by E-Boats vessels were required to draw them away from the convoy with gunfire and M.A.S.B.'s were converted to M.G.B.'s for this role, it was only in 1943 that boats had both tubes and a decent level of firepower fitted and even then some boat's were classed as M.T.B.'s despite not having tubes fitted, so S32 may well have been a M.A.S.B./A.S.R/M.G.B. at the time the photo was taken!


Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 01 June 2007 at 2:53pm

Member's who read these pages on the forum are I am sure like me in that once a puzzle appears you go into bloodhound mode to try and find out what the answer is and this has certainly happened in regard to the "S" and what it meant on "S32". In digging out and reading books which I have kept for many years I noticed that there were a number of different types of boats that had "S" in front of their number, Fairmile A,s, British Power Boat types etc it appears that it means Asdic fitted which was not only used for anti sub work but precise depth sounding for coastal navigation purposes whilst protecting convoy's. Christian has confirmed that Asdic was fitted to S32, so unless anybody knows different of course!!!



Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 17 July 2007 at 9:27am

 All being well, MASB '32 should be being loaded for shipping tomorrow (weather permitting)

any photgraphs would be great and all crossed fingers would be appreciated!

lets hope this mashap does not happen....

  http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/general-yachting-discussion/7055-splash.html - http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/general-yachting-discussio n/7055-splash.html



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masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/


Posted By: gibdan
Date Posted: 17 July 2007 at 11:09am

Clive, which ship is she going on? and do you know at what time she will be loaded on?

 

Daniel



Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 17 July 2007 at 12:39pm

Hi There,

 

Indeed, you do not want that to happend to MASB 32! what a mess, appears front strop failed or may be the chain, lucky for the guys on it, although here in UK we do not have people on board when lifting in case of such an event! any way, looking forward to seeing her here in the UK and out and about of course.

JohnK



Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 17 July 2007 at 1:52pm

Another change to the plan, MASB will now be loaded on 19th onto a ship called Alexandrov.

I am still not sure of the time.

Daniel,  I will message you the telephone number of Alan Robinson from the sea school who will be skippering her, he will welcome you to go with him and be the Photographer.

I am sure that the more hands he gets the better!



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masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/


Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 17 July 2007 at 6:02pm

Clive, we are of course keeping everything crossed for S32's safe passage. in regards to the power diving Carver the front strop slipped off then caught the anchor which is why the anchor chain is going up whilst everything else is going down with the gravity pull, lifting a load like that with two cranes is a very tricky task and of course on today's ship's the crew's  speak different languages which is a big problem and has caused a number of incident's in the past, so if they were moving in different directions or at a different speed the front strop would slip off, the back strop pulled all the stern gear out



Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 17 July 2007 at 8:41pm

I don't think it looks as though the Carver was being lifted with two cranes, MASB should be so that 4 strops can be used, we will hope there is a common language between the drivers!

Here is another 'Diver' although it is more of a belly flop! (scroll to bottom of page)

http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/general-yachting-discussion/6263-yacht-dropped.html?highlight=dropped - http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/general-yachting-discussio n/6263-yacht-dropped.html?highlight=dropped



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masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/


Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 17 July 2007 at 10:12pm
Clive, in your last posting it shows the correct lifting rig but unfortunatly the wrong crane!! In the Carver photo there does not appear to be any lifting rig neither is there a lashing to stop the strops doing the spl/\its, for me it points to two ships cranes being used, if you look at the adverts for boat transports you will see the type of ship used and the two cranes usually on the Starboard side rather than amidships like they use to be, I will light a candle for 32 or better still set fire to next doors shed I am sure it will be ok


Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 17 July 2007 at 10:28pm
as long as you don't live near Lowestoft I wont worry too much!

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masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/


Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 18 July 2007 at 2:12pm
Clive a good measure of RUM in your cocoa and you will sleep well till 32 arrives, unfortunatly I could not carry out the task as we have had that much rain the matches were a bit damp and the two sticks a bit soggy, his shed has now floated away and will be arriving in Lowestoft.


Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 18 July 2007 at 8:54pm

Well would you beleive it, here is the latest correspondence re '32....

Dear Clive,

Just a note to say that loading of MASB32 is now planned for Sunday. Alan Robinson knew before I did. His deputy will take MASB32 alongside if it stays Sunday. If it slips to Monday, Alan will be available.

Please encourage your colleagues to join the operation as extra hands are valuable.
 
 
best laid plans and all that!!!
Please pm me if you can be of help. regards, Clive..



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masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/


Posted By: AndyS
Date Posted: 18 July 2007 at 10:05pm

Clive

Good luck with the shipping and fingers crossed for a safe passage home!

I am sure htat you will have thsi covered with your local agent, but if you get a chance during the loading (or before talking with the loadmaster) check that the deck cradle supports her stong points to avoid punch through at sea. Good locations are chines and bulkheads as the keel can also push up and the frames are quite light between bearers. Of course generally the more linked support points the better. There is often an agreed loading plan for each boat between shippers, owners and insurers that covers this.



Posted By: northeastuser
Date Posted: 18 July 2007 at 10:11pm

Best of luck Clive and fingers crossed for you and '32. Though I’m sure things will be fine. Get lots of pictures!



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Posted By: The Pom
Date Posted: 21 July 2007 at 3:22am

Hi Clive, I have been following your "adventures" with 32 with great interest as a former owner of 32 when she was Fervent. I brought her down to the Med. in 1967 with my family on board. I live in Australia now and flew up to Gib. in January this year with a view to repurchase Fervent but the cost, with taxes etc, to ship her back home were prohibitive. I had really set my heart on owning her again!! I would really love to be kept informed of your progress with her in time to come.   I have photos of her from 40 years ago as well as the original receipt when I bought her. If you would care to forward your address to me I'll post copies to you.

The Pom

pjwallis@telpacific.com.au

 

 



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Peter W


Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 22 July 2007 at 11:48am

Hi there,

If there are any of you Gib fellows available with cameras today please look out for the 'ALEXANDROV'.

 '32 should be lifted today, although it was said it may go to tomorrow.



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masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/


Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 22 July 2007 at 8:05pm

Hi English fellow,

The ship is there, on the inside of the North Mole and visible from my kitchen window, no sign of any lifting activities so far this evening. 



Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 22 July 2007 at 8:24pm

I have recently been informed that the lift will be tomorrow, I don't know what time. I think Daniel is in contact with the skipper to get close up action shots!

I hope you can also get some shore based photos.

I will be away from my computer all day tomorrow until about 9pm so will not be able to receive or pass on any info.

 



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masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/


Posted By: d-zine
Date Posted: 23 July 2007 at 7:41am
Clive,

Can I just add my best wishes for today. I am sure we are looking to her successful return to home waters.


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Advance - Runaway Quickly , Runaway Quickly


Posted By: rafwebfoot
Date Posted: 23 July 2007 at 10:17am

Clive,

best wishes for a safe lift with no problems.



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FAIR WINDS AND A FAVOURABLE TIDE
Donald


Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 23 July 2007 at 10:35pm

Hi guys, (and gals)

my roving reporters (not the roving and clenching type of roving) have informed me that all aspects of the lift did not go to plan. MASB 32 is on the ship but has suffered some damage I have not seen the pictures yet but have briefly spoken to the shipping agent and will find out more tomorrow.



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masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/


Posted By: d-zine
Date Posted: 23 July 2007 at 10:55pm
Hi Clive,

Don't know what to say.


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Advance - Runaway Quickly , Runaway Quickly


Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 23 July 2007 at 11:25pm

BUG**R  is a good start!

I'm not sure how bad it is, it is purely another episode in the saga!

mind you the fact she is leaving Gib is a massive plus point, as the mooring fees were eating into my sons inheritance! still, I don't recon southampton will be a 'bargain rate' but she is inching her way closer all the time..



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masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/


Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 24 July 2007 at 8:37am

Just wanted to say also sorry to hear the lift did not go well, I do hope the damage is not to bad, lifting these craft is a skilled job, especially of this age ie all wood they usually lift steel or fibreglass with the lifting points clearly marked. I would hope the vessel doing the lifting has some insurance cover.

 

JohnK



Posted By: rafwebfoot
Date Posted: 24 July 2007 at 10:27am
Dammed bad luck Clive, (or ineptitude on the part of the shippers) A similar thing happened to 1392 earlier this year but I will not frighten you with his repair costs until you can survey your boat on its arrival.

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FAIR WINDS AND A FAVOURABLE TIDE
Donald


Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 24 July 2007 at 12:28pm

As can be seen, the forward sling is placed rather too far aft leading to undue strain at the chine area where a slight failure occured on starboard, I could not see the port side. There was a timber spacer placed between the hull and the sling but this drifted off before the third lifting attempt. It was noticed that the bows were too low on the first attempt, which is when the chine failed. They moved the aft slings fwd to try to compensate, then tried again with the same result. They then apparently lengthened the aft slings to try to raise the bows, this gave the desired effect so they went ahead and lifted her, luckily (amazingly) with no further damage although they held her an awfully long time like this whilst they prepped the chocks on deck.

In my view, the old girl stood up to the unnecessary mis-treatment remarkably well.

Why on earth did they not move the forward slings further forward? This would have brought the boat level, which is what they wanted to do. I think about a metre and a half further forward would have done the trick. The only explanation I can think of is they grossly over estimated the weight of the machinery.

Hope damage not too severe, BPB boats always loosen their chines strakes when lifted in slings (because the strakes stand quite proud) so this was to be expected, but her hull was deforming very slightly in the area immediately around the slings (on starboard) which worried me.



Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 24 July 2007 at 1:09pm

Thanks Christian,

 I expected them to use 4 strops and spacers,

The vessel is due to berth on Friday evening at about 18h00 and start unloading on Saturday. So there is time for work on deck if she is to go back in the water, if not it will be a rather expencive road trip and lift in Norfolk.



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masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/


Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 24 July 2007 at 2:00pm

Hi All,

 

Agree with Christian totally, the forward strop is way to far back obviously, the strain must have been terrific. As with all, do hope damage is limited, but picture could be usefull if needed, if you get my meaning! what a pity, a lesson to all I think.

 

JohnK



Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 24 July 2007 at 2:27pm

schoolboy error I'd say,

I recon the damage has been limited by luck more than judgement...

my question is, if the loadmaster deemed in neccessary for the spacers to be placed in their position (rightly so) then why were they not replaced when they floated off?



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masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/


Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 24 July 2007 at 2:34pm

The spacer, heading for freedom..

To be honest, they looked far too thick which would have resulted in enormous inward pressure on the hull sides.



Posted By: rafwebfoot
Date Posted: 24 July 2007 at 3:22pm
Slings look as though they were positioned by 'guesstimate' rather than by common sense or measuremnent. I also agree that the packing pieces appear to be too thick and could exert a great deal of pressure just above the chine. Brings me back on my 'hobbyhorse' with regards to lifting/slinging and slipping these craft.  We had to follow a set of detailed instructions to alleviate expensive damage - and this was with young well maintained boats on which no expense was spared by the military.

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FAIR WINDS AND A FAVOURABLE TIDE
Donald


Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 24 July 2007 at 4:04pm

the gap between the two slings may be correct, the problem is they both may have been too far aft. If the front sling was moved foreward then then the gap between the two may have  been too great leaving the risk of breaking her back.

one other problem (as I see it) would be the lack of spreaders fore and aft this would have given two vertical lifts making the strops lift flat and not cut in on their edges...

 



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masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/


Posted By: rafwebfoot
Date Posted: 24 July 2007 at 4:51pm

Yes, I agree with you on the spreaders, I will dig out some lifting/slinging pics for RTTLs and Pinnaces and try to post them, if not I will e-mail direct



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FAIR WINDS AND A FAVOURABLE TIDE
Donald


Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 24 July 2007 at 5:46pm

Donald's very fine photo showing HSL 2595 (now Adelheid) being lifted from a single point with only two slings, note how much care was taken to protect the chines (even when the boats were new) and to prevent the slings slipping aft. Note also the forward slings are positioned quite far forward, and that the slings are very short in comparison to those used on the MA/SB, making their lives even harder.



Posted By: gibdan
Date Posted: 24 July 2007 at 10:14pm

Hi Christian and all, the lifting straps were put in place by the loadmaster with the advice from the diver in the water who as far as i could guess were placed where the strongest beams on the hull were. He had already checked the whole hull underneath whilst the loadmaster checked from the inside. They didn't want to put the foward straps further foward as they thought that it would make the hull break in two. Hopefully Clive will get more expert info from them.

PS, Christian if I would have known it was you taking the pics from the wharf I would have at least said hi. I was the fat fellow getting off the MASB32 onto the Blands launch and then onto the wharf meters away from you!!!!!

regards,

Daniel 



Posted By: gibdan
Date Posted: 24 July 2007 at 10:29pm

Some pics:

With TARIK at Marina Bay befre we set off

Daniel

Leaving the Marina

with the Rock behind

and again

 

Daniel



Posted By: gibdan
Date Posted: 24 July 2007 at 10:31pm

Her first lift

Daniel



Posted By: gibdan
Date Posted: 24 July 2007 at 10:33pm

Her final lift (she had three tries)...mare level now by the addition of extra shackles on the after straps.

Daniel



Posted By: gibdan
Date Posted: 24 July 2007 at 10:34pm

On deck

Daniel



Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 24 July 2007 at 10:52pm

Hi Daniel

Based on what we've seen getting expert advice from them would indeed be hopeful. The diver was kept busy arguing with the deck crew who were trying to lead the yellow preventer slings over the rails rather than under them. He was doubting their parentage in two languages as far as I could make out. Having been in the business of lifting boats for the last 20 years I can pretty much spot a cock up when I see one. Sorry I didn't acknowledge you, it is a shame we've not met but at the time I was gobsmacked watching the scene unfold. 



Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 25 July 2007 at 12:06am

those men on deck cant have read about the lifting accidents on this topic!

 seriously though it's probably not the brightest idea..



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masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/


Posted By: gibdan
Date Posted: 25 July 2007 at 7:17am

Although I am no expert on lifts etc and I reserve judgement on the MASB lift I must agree with you Christian that some things didn't look right. Like I said before, there was a lot of discussion going on between the diver and the loadmaster during the first and second try and all I could hear them discussing was that moving the straps foward would have placed too much pressure on the hull and they feared it would break in two, but again I wouldnt like to comment much on the rights and wrongs as I have no experience in lifting or how to lift a boat out of the water!

Would pre planning and maybe using a cradle instead would have been better?

Daniel

 




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