Restoration Advice

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    Trantomanta has it spot on!
 Seal the outside of the hull as normal but make sure the inside can breathe. If its glossed inside then strip it out as she wont take long to rot in the UK climate. Any cheap wood preserver meant for outside use will do , eg cuprinol, B&Q £5 for 10 gallon junk so long as its got fungicidal additives & lets her timbers breath. Mix in used deisel engine oil & you've effectively got creasote but dont think the health & safety lot will be very cheerful & too much would soak right through & compromise outer barrier.
 Seeing the damage the jetwash did to 506 i wish we'd hired a couple of guys to scrape off barnacles then sand her back, may have had a lot less planking to replace(2/3 instead of 100% new chine). 
 Good luck with her Clive! Sure you'll keep her the best whaleback in the water!!

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jimmy p Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 26 September 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 283	Post Options Post Reply Quote jimmy p Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 28 May 2007 at 8:34pm
	Trantomanta has it spot on! Seal the outside of the hull as normal but make sure the inside can breathe. If its glossed inside then strip it out as she wont take long to rot in the UK climate. Any cheap wood preserver meant for outside use will do , eg cuprinol, B&Q £5 for 10 gallon junk so long as its got fungicidal additives & lets her timbers breath. Mix in used deisel engine oil & you've effectively got creasote but dont think the health & safety lot will be very cheerful & too much would soak right through & compromise outer barrier. Seeing the damage the jetwash did to 506 i wish we'd hired a couple of guys to scrape off barnacles then sand her back, may have had a lot less planking to replace(2/3 instead of 100% new chine). Good luck with her Clive! Sure you'll keep her the best whaleback in the water!!
	A boat is a hole in the water surrounded by wood, into which one throws money

clive Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 11 December 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 379	Post Options Post Reply Quote clive Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 28 May 2007 at 9:47pm
	Cuprinol makes sense, doubt I'll be mixing diesel with it as I recon that would make her stink forever! with regard to the jetwash if it took the wood off then the wood was not worth leaving on, sounds like the barnacles may have been holding her together!
	masbie something in the water. www.freewebs.com/masb32/

AndyS Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 09 July 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 81	Post Options Post Reply Quote AndyS Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 28 May 2007 at 10:49pm
	Clive Hard luck with the voyage. Does she still have self bailers? when motoring these are much faster than using pumps and were standard fit originally. Just a note on preservatives... If you want to use adhesives or bonded caulking later then use oil or oily solvent based preservatives with caution. If it soaks in it will take a lot of solvent wipes or flushes to get a bondable surface. The older white lead and putty based caulkings may work OK but many of the modern products already require a 'primer' to make them stick adequately to wood. This is all down to horses for courses as there are many ways to do things. The reason for leaking is that the original internal waterproof membrane between the planks is now well past it's sell by date and is exposed where dryer planks have shrunk back. If the planks swell as they get wetter then they may stem the flow. Also the movement of the hull when slamming will exacerbate this. Best regards AndyS

jimmy p Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 26 September 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 283	Post Options Post Reply Quote jimmy p Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 28 May 2007 at 11:16pm
	AndyS has a point! Many modern materials dont take well to old methods so do lots of research. The substitute creasote way i mentioned is only applicable to non smokers & requires some good ventilation. Best to check what will react with the glue in her frames before charging in! That said most breathable wood preserver should be fine & keep her good for many years.
	A boat is a hole in the water surrounded by wood, into which one throws money

clive Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 11 December 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 379	Post Options Post Reply Quote clive Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 28 May 2007 at 11:24pm
	Hi Andy, I don't think she has self bailers, How would theese work with watertight bulkheads also do you not have to be travelling fairly fast for them to work? There is a fair bit of daylight coming in through the front, the chine is damaged and there are holes there. she could be patched but realistically it makes sense not to risk the passage home to save a few quid, good job she did not get too far, a blessing in disguise. As you say, she may swell a bit but the hull working and slamming in much bigger seas is never going to help the situation and could end very badly.
	masbie something in the water. www.freewebs.com/masb32/

AndyS Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 09 July 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 81	Post Options Post Reply Quote AndyS Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 28 May 2007 at 11:35pm
	The self bailers were fitted at the aft of each water tight compartment, or at least the main ones that picked up water. They had a suction head near to the centreline and then an 'n' shaped tube up the bulkhead and back down again to a hole in the hull. Most of the through hulls had a small local fairing to encourage low pressure (like an aeroplane wing in reverse) and to improve extraction. They also had an anti-siphon valve at the top and a sea cock at the bottom. I have not actually seen one in operation but I would expext that anything around 10 knots and upwards should work. They would need about 2~3 psi pressure differential to work, which is only 15~20% of atmospheric pressure. Maybe one day when I get my boat a bit closer to launching I will do some calculations and some tests. Best regards AndyS

northeastuser Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 10 June 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 446	Post Options Post Reply Quote northeastuser Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 28 May 2007 at 11:47pm
	It was rotten timber on the 506 jimmy, it had to come off. If it had not been jet washed off I dread to think what may have happened. Talking of glue, there’s one term that has bugged me with reference to the 506. Laminated frames. Im sorry but apart from the last 4 laminated beams in the stern , there are no laminated beams in her hull. Yes I know people seam to think she has laminated keel ,however her plans and my observations show a scarf in the keel. So im willing to guess that wasn’t laminated! (why laminate then put a scarf in?) Now at this point id expect everyone to jump up and say the engine beds etc are laminated. Well my response would be “No there not, their vertical sandwich construction” And I would probably add that there’s more screws in there than I can count. Same for the watertight bulkheads, there all sandwich construction, not laminated. Or am I just being picky? Personally I happen to think that sandwich construction is far more advanced than laminate, even now. Edited by northeastuser

AndyS Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 09 July 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 81	Post Options Post Reply Quote AndyS Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 May 2007 at 1:07am
	Not all 71'6" are laminated stems and keels. I am not sure of the fit for 506, but enev if laminated there is a scarf between the stem and the keel as these are made as seperate items. Your frames should have glued biscuits (joining brackets). The sandwich forms boxes and which are tougher, lighter and stronger than the 'warren girder' engine bearer structures used in previous boats and allowed the use of more lower grade materials as well as being faster to build on a jig. These are techniques that are now being applied to engineered timbers in modern houses (oh and the Scott-Wood houses of the 1940s!) There was provision made in the later versions of this boat to use laminated frames if the higher grade graming timbers got too scarce, so lower grade cores would be used, but I have not seen this on an actual boat. I am interested in what you find and I will check with phil Simons which batch this boat came out of. Best regards AndyS

jimmy p Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 26 September 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 283	Post Options Post Reply Quote jimmy p Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 May 2007 at 1:49am
	Fairplay NE! i kinda looked at everything else while you got technical with 506. Guess i'm still sussing out whats classed as good timber & whats classed as boat building standard timber! Mea Culpa old pal!! Sure we'll discuss the finer points of it in Malta over a joes burger soon enough. Lets get her home though & if i put anyone elses life on the line with my repairs then i'll sail back with them! The Med & Biscay is a different world from a bit of coastal cruising in the UK! Learn fast or die young is the impression i get & when 506 comes home then we'll really understand what these crews went through
	A boat is a hole in the water surrounded by wood, into which one throws money

northeastuser Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 10 June 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 446	Post Options Post Reply Quote northeastuser Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 May 2007 at 9:25am
	Sorry Andys I did not mean to launch into an attack against/at anyone. The Ambra has 4 ‘engine beds’ running for and aft along the hull from stem to end of engine room. These are as you described. E.G sandwiched box structure, with hollow sections between the ply. In the engine room there is an extra pair and they are all solid e.g 3 layers of timber with no hollows. I have a set of waterlines sent to me by pushback at 1 inch to 1 ft scale. The have the British Powerboat stamp and some interesting notations. The most surprising was the one that states the waterlines were copied from loft floor and shows the revised and raised cine of 8 inches. Im wondering if this explains why they were called 71ft 6 inches but were in fact(perhaps just the later ones?) 71ft9? Im by no means an expert and its just idle speculation. However the same set of waterlines state that they are drawn to inside of hull planking which was 1 inch thick. So im assuming that means two layers of planking, and not 3 like what was on the Riai. So im fairly certain now that the Ambra had two layers of planking!! Re the keel, the plans I have from the same period show a scarf forward of the engine room. That’s the location of movement in the Ambra’s keel