Thornycroft 2422 MTB

I have actually fired a full manual Bofors at sea and "obtained" the first shell case I fired which I still have and now has silk flowers in, it  was part of  the evolution training I went through in the late 1950's, as we did not carry a Weapons Mech, the best way to  fire the fwd gun at sea is to point the bow towards the target if possible and put a little bit of speed on to keep the boat steady rather than fire over P or S, I would think that the advantage of a Bofors hitting ground targets like trains is because it is an anti- aircraft weapon and therefore has a high muzzle velocity (like they used a German 88mm only smaller) it would be also ideal for punching holes in F-lighters, my first rag and stick experience was in 1947 and I learnt very quickly that you should always wear a lifejacket as being a good swimmer is of no advantage at all when you have had a smack on the head due to loss of concentration and a wayward boom 

Hopefully the attack will be in the dark and the Enemy will not see/hear you creeping up till the last minute, it seemed to work in the Med when attacking "F" lighters and Trains!! Have you read "Flag 4"? I would recommend it. One of the most beautiful boat's I have sailed is an Uffa Fox "Flying Fifteen" which was moored near to our Motor Cruiser when we took her to Scarborough for the summer hol's many many years ago, the F.F. was in the water in all weathers yet the varnish never seemed to fade, another early lesson learnt "Quality Counts". Dare I say this!!, I have fired a Bren, albeight in the middle of the Atlantic and  over the Taff Rail of an Israeli owned cargo boat which I was on when their problems  with the Arabs/ Terrorists was at it's severest, she had a veritable hidden armoury on board but that's a story for the M.N. page one day. Wife tells me I should write a book!!  Regards.

Hello Jimmy P,

It still exists! Wow!

OK I have all the plans for the 2422 boat(s) class which I think are those for RN service No24. Thanks anyway but I got them from the National Maritime Museum.

Please have a close look at the after deck. If I am correct there should be traces of the two depth charge racks that drop over the stern. Also, just ahead of the access hatch to the aft ammo store there should be evidence of the Bofors gun mounting. This will probably be about two and a half foot square and if below deck, an angle iron framework extending down to the keel, between the four fuel tanks.

A sure fire identification however is the rudder gear. Two of them on external shafts bracketed off the transom. The top of the shafts having the tiller arms that enters the hull through gaitered slots with an internal linkage bar. The bottom of the rudder shaft mountings is also the end bearing for the prop shaft. This is I believe unique to the 2422 type.

Whilst 'rummaging' are its original engines still there? Drawings show four Thornycroft RY 12's. But there is a pencil note making reference to Packard engines, together with a re-drawn prop shaft line, it goes deeper, and notation for 27 and a half inch dia props.

If it is one of the 2422 class another feature is its 'boat shaped' cabin front  its vertical walls having large horizontal slatted air ventilation inlets.

If it is of interest whilst on the IoW the Thornycroft test tank can be seen from Sandown Road on the left at the top of the hill as one goes towards Bembridge from Bembridge Airport. The actual site is known as Steyne Wood Battery. It is a private house now so going in for a look is not realy on. Besides which it is now just a great big green-house, no water! In fact it was the Thornycroft R&D establishment.

I hope you enjoy your visit to the IoW and the weather is kind for you.

Regards,

Martin ej

Hi Martin

I put two photos of MTB 24 as Little Susie here;

http://www.bmpt.org.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=177&KW= susie&PN=0&TPN=21

Hi Jan

There is a wealth of footage now available on the Movietone News website  http://www.movietone.com/  , showing Irish MTB M1 (see story No 33219 "Motor Torpedo Boat For Eire" and 39302 "Eire's Defences"). One of the other boats is featured on story No 43215 "Irish Review Of The Year" from 6:17 to 6:45 mins. It is not M1 (she has the distinctive broad flat wheelhouse front). It is one of the other two (M2 or 3) with the broad wheelhouse (but with angled side screens) and clear glass bridge screens as opposed to the RN-style narrow wheelhose with solid bridge mounted wind deflectors (M4-6?).

Regards, Christian.

 

 

 

p.s. I think you'll enjoy these too;

37140 New Torpedo Boat (40K)  
35961 QIII Motor Torpedo Boat    
38484 Hong Kong Defences(Thornycroft MTB 27 and 60ft BPBs) 
                          
40962 Dutch East Indies  
                          
76363 ISRAELI NAVAL MANEOUVRES

Edited by Christian

Dear Martin ej,

Regarding Thornycroft yard no 2422. Although this ended up as the Irish Marine Service Public Armed Ship (P.A.S.) M 1, I believe that this boat was originally not intended for Ireland.

In January 1939, Latvia ordered a single MTB from Thornycroft. Ireland ordered her first two MTBs only in May 1939 (probably became M 2 and M 3). When war broke out in September 1939, construction of all MTBs building in British yards for foreign countries was halted. At the same time Ireland wanted to order more MTBs. Probably, the British Royal Navy had no wish to keep a boat driven by four Thornycroft RY/12 engines (they preferred the more powerful Isotta Fraschini engines, which was still available !) and allowed the Irish government to take over the unfinished boat. Simultaneously, three other boats were ordered (to become M 4 to M 6). M 1 was handed over to the Marine Service at Hampton, 18th January 1940 and commissioned as Public Armed Ship on the 29th January, by Lt. Carey. The boat was icebound until 30th January and sailed for home on the 31st January 1940.

This means that the drawings you have may actually represent the Latvian MTB ordered in January 1939, taken over in/after September 1939.

About this boat the Quarterly Journal Warship International 1997, No. 3, provides the following information:

p. 261 cites "Jane's Fighting Ships 1939": "a first MTB was ordered by Estonia from Thornycroft in January 1939. Dimensions: 22 x 4.9 m; 4 engines 1765 kW; over 40 knots; 2-450 mm torpedo tubes"

p.269 cites from the "U.S. Naval Attaché Great Britain Report X Serial No. 333 dated 4 April 1939": "1. The contract for a new type of motor torpedo boat was placed recently with John. I. Thornycroft & Co., Ltd. It will be built at this company's plant at Hampton-on-Thames. This vessel, which is to be built for the Estonian Government, will be 72 ft. long with a beam of 16 ft. There will be four Thornycroft 12-cylinder gasoline marine engines, each of 600 BHP. They will operate two shafts and will be arranged so that the forward engines can be clutched out and cruising can be accomplished on the after engines on each shaft. There will be clutches which can be changed to give the propellors the same number of revolutions as the engines or one-half the number.

2. Unlike recent boats built by this plant, this boat will not be a step boat.

3. It is due to complete about June next....".

p. 270 cites from the "US Naval Attaché Report Z serial No. R-256 dated 21 Apr. 1939": "According to German press reports, either two or four motor torpedo boats were ordered early in 1939. "Schiffbau" for 1 April 1939 reported the order for two vessels, about 22 m (72.16 ft.) by 4.9 m (16.07 ft.), powered by four 12-cyl. Thornycroft gasoline engines of 600 HP each. Complement was to be two officers and eight men each."

Unfortunately, there is no information on the guns/MGs carried in addition to the torpedo tubes. Possibly, this armament was to be installed in Latvia. If a 40 mm gun was to be included, the boat had to be strengthened during construction at Thornycroft. This would surely show up in the plans of the boat.

Greetings,

Jan