Trust History.

Hello Pathfinder

re. "Should the Forum, and therefore the website as a whole, be seen to be failing to achieve its objectives, then possibly it should be discontinued?"

Please don't. I for one joined BMPT as a "thank you" for the "use" of the forum, which appears an effective network of very knowledgeable and mutually supportive people. If just one more boat is saved eg 506 then the forum will have proved itself.

Now that the Trust has "got over" the loss of the yard, perhaps the BMPTs objectives can be redefined and a step by step plan showing what is being done now and what needs to be done to achieve the longer term goals.

As a starter for 10:

• A list of "at risk" boats needs compiling and (painful though it will be) ranking in order of priority/merit.
• A list of willing individuals and their geographical locations.
• A list of boat yards/facilities which look kindly on those trying to restore an historic boat. (ie proper discounts)
• Sources of free expert advice, shipwrights, engineers, carpenters, etc...
• List of useful suppliers, eg timber, props, engines,....

I have no idea of the geographical location of members, but local groups supported by a "centre/network? of knowledge" might just work, and the forum become the lifeblood of communication.

Thanks again

Gentlemen,

Thank you all for your very welcome postings

I will respond to each in turn, but first a historical  summary.

It is, in my personal opinion, far better that "old coals" be raked over now, that everyone has the opportunity to air their views, and have their worries and questions fully addressed.

To give you a broader picture of the situation at that time, may I explain to you how we went about the Trust business.

1. We had a 3 year time span in which to move everyting we had inside the sheds, out of them.

 There was no option of a "maybe" extension, we had to be out, or what remained would be bulldozed, and burnt. QED.

2. The first thing we had to do was to discover exactly what we had in the sheds.

3. Next we had to discover the history of each item, ie how did it get to the Trust, did it belong to the Trust, was it donated or was it purchased, was it on loan, or was it just "parked" there, was it a PBR project being worked on etc. This proved to be the biggest problem, as the paperwork covering the history of many of the items and boats simply did not exist. If I told you that in some instances it took 2 years to sort out some items, you would probably not believe me, but it did, the RSL being one, Humber being another which are explained later.

4. Having discovered via verbal and extensive phoning and email asking, the answers to most of (3), we started the process of requesting owners of items to recover them, and the unknown owned items, and our own items, to be found homes for.

5. At the same time we had to continue to look for a new home for the Trust, as well as to look carefully into all the offers which we had recieved, for homes for the owned items. 

Here the problems started to accumulate. Many offers were recieved, but as soon as we told the offerers that the removal costs were for their own account, we heard no more.

Within a very short space of time, the 3 years sped by, and it was only 7 days before we closed the shed doors, that MTB331 was finally moved to her new home. Even this was achieved as a result of much phoning on an everday badgering basis, to get things moving.

Rest assured that a huge amount of time was spent in the search for suitable solutions. In the end , some solutions were better than others, but the results were dictated by our time limit, which was an imoveable object, and the "effort" put in by Trust members, to assist with sorting out the problems. Some of this "effort" was made on a dailly slog  basis, 7 days a week, whilst others could only offer their verbal and moral support. Believe it or not, we even had to do battle with some of our own members, whose sole purpose in life seemed to be to bring the Trust to its knees..! All of this "effort" allowed us to reach a solution. The solution may not have been to everybody's liking, but it was far better than the option available at the very beginning, that of walking away and letting it all go up in smoke.

It is perhaps ironic, that after the event, many "offers" have been made, and many demands of "why did you do this" or "why didnt you do that" were made...that is the nature of the beast I suppose, but, as unpaid volunteers, some holding down day jobs as well, we did our absolute best, I can personally promise you, under extremely difficult circumstances. I have to add that for me it was a great personal privilege, to have worked with such a dedicated and unshakeably resolute and optimistic team of volunteering individuals, without whose "effort" and dedication the Trust would most certainly have ceased to exist. All this history is recorded in newsletters, which are available on the front page of the BMPT site for scrutiny.

I only hope that we can now look to the future, and continue to progress, and allow the heritage and history of "The Boats" and all those who fought them, to continue to be recorded and saved .

What is essential is the we have a good following of people who are prepared to work to achieve the objectives.

At this points it seems appropriate to answer DMSmith's posting.

Firstly a sincere thank you Dave for your very positive, spiritually uplifting and forward looking thoughts, with which I personally agree.

All 5 of your points are extremely relevant and achievable. We need  to establish a central point of reference, for which I personally would like to see the BMPT website being used , and then spread the net far and wide to bring in area "detectives" to scout the waterways, river banks and boatyards, and find the boats.( I am trying to put the "Boatyards" together as well..)

As we now have the Coastal Forces Veterans sharing our site temporarily, could we ask their particpation in finding those who are not members but who should be part of the effort..?,After all it is their History we seek to preserve..? Pioneer..?

Regarding the objectives of the Trust, they are as follows..

1. "To maintain and preserve for the public benefit British military powerboats of historic interest"

2. "To advance the education of the Public in the historical context of British military powerboats"

Would you not consider these to be sufficiently "broad" to cover the needs for the future..?

What is missing are the Men and Women who built and fought these boats, but it goes without saying that boats without people do not exist..?

On occasion we stray outside of the "Britsh" boundary.In most cases the "outside" boats were either built for the "British", and used by others, or designed by the "British" for others to build and use, or were adversaries of the "British" and therefore extremely relevant to the need for the "British" boats to be built in the first place..?

As you are aware, we are currnetly in agreement with EISCA,(refer newsletters) who have promised us a place in their Maritime Centre at Poole, which we are really looking forward to. This could be a fantastic "centre of operations" as you describe it..? No dates at the time of writing.

Next, for Tramontana. Thank you for your understanding posting.

I appreciate that for some, getting to the AGM is difficult, but it is the case of the moveables going to the imoveable. Remember that 1502 is available all summer to any members who would like to make use of her, and we are hoping to make Ark Royal equally available. We will try and make the AGM an all day affair, so that it is worth travelling those few extra miles, to enjoy at least some of it..! 

The demise of the RSL is indeed a sad one at first glance, but here is the history.

The RSL belonged to the Military base at Marchwood. She was used as a "chippy" training centre, and "battle damage" was crudely inflicted upon her hull using blunt instruments. This "battle damage" was then repaired by apprentice "chippies" using common timber. She had been robbed of most of her instrumentation, and left open to the weather for many years. When Marchwood had had their way with her, she somehow migrated to the Trust sheds. Her ownership was completely suspect, and after an extremely  long "discussion" with the Army, we received a letter advising us that "she now  belonged to the Trust". All our efforts to find a new home for her came to nothing, and the Trust certainly did not have the funds, nor a home, to either restore her or move her to. Bear in mind that an average move, inclusive of cranes, was in the region of £4000.00. ( 160 memberships)

Two of the Trust members own an RSL 1643, a direct relation to our RSL. The decision was therfore made to offer the boat to the 1643 team. This offer they gladly accepted, but their needs were to remove the usefull parts such as engines and gearboxes, along with wiring and piping, to use to keep their own boat operational, and extend her life span. This exchange could have been achieved by them paying for craneage and trailer to remove the boat from the Trust, to their own premises. The costs of this were obviously high, and the most sensible and cost effective method was that we allow them to break the boat on the Trust site, and remove the parts they needed.  This came about, and we regretfully, burned what was left. However another boat survives as a result of our own sacrifice.

HSL1643 is available to the Trust for events.

RASC "Humber" is another story of lost identity. She did not belong to the Trust. She has a long history of being looked after, but her actual ownership was very unclear. In the end after much investigation, we discovered that she also still belonged to the Army. We politely requested that the Army remove her from the sheds. This in turn promptly produced the necessary "letter of donation" to the Trust..! In the meantime we had found a member of the Trust prepared to take ownership, and remove her at his own expense, for restoration. The deal is that when we have a permanent home she will come back to the Trust in exchange for useage on occasion, by her present owner. ( refer newsletters)

Re HSL142, we were aware of her ownership, and immediately offered her back to her owner Mr Dent.

Her condition when I arrived at the trust was derelict. She was hull only with no superstructure or engines. Many bulkheads had been removed. She had been covered with ply and light tarps, all of which had blown away, and not replaced. She had sustained keel damage when lifted, and a piece of timber had been attached to the keel, where the fracture had occured. She lay on her starboard chine, and as result had aquired a twist in the hull. Every effort was made by Mr Dent and the trust to move her on, but time and finance were against us. It was agreed between Mr Dent and us, that she should, with deep regret, be broken up. Her transom survives, and the Trust member who owns it, is restoring it to original.

I hope this answeres your postings, and if you cannot find an answer in the newsletters on the BMPT front page, please ask and I will try and answer.

In the meantime, can we look forward..

We have 3 boats belongoing to the Trust, 2 of which are operational. We have 3 boats belonging to members, 2 of which are operational.

EISCA have 2 boats

MTB102 works

Gay Archer works

The IWM has 3 boats..maybe they could start a "Boatshed"

If we had the finance and the premises, we would willingfully purchase MGB81, HSL102 and 206 as operational boats, if Mr Clabburn would allow us to do so.

16 boats.

So all is not lost just yet, as out of the ashes, green shoots appear...???

We desperately need membership, donations, ideas and the will to make it all work.

PLEASE..?

Thank you for getting this far..!!.