Any "Dog Boats" Still around?
Printed From: BMPT Forum
Category: General Discussion
Forum Name: Where Are Those Boats Now
Forum Description: Tell everybody where those old boats are
URL: http://www.bmpt.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=141
Printed Date: 26 March 2026 at 9:10pm
Topic: Any "Dog Boats" Still around?
Posted By: Jim
Subject: Any "Dog Boats" Still around?
Date Posted: 24 April 2006 at 8:16pm
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Four Questions guys! 1. Do any Farmile D Boats survive? 2.Does anyone know where the Three MTB's that lay up in Irvine Marina on the West coast of Scotland went to ? (Think they were Dark or Gay Class?) 3. Have been watching a Large Grey hull in the River Leven in Dumbarton for the last year,looks like over 70feet and a MTB like hull,Pic to follow (Still need to take!) 4.Two hulls were cut up/burned at Bowling Harbour about 10 years ago, one was "Whale back" the other i'm sure was a early MGB (Metal plates were guns would go?) any info would be great,I'm still hunting any in my area,Including a Launch in Balloch Marina with a new cabin,looks about 50 feet in long with 40's looking hull
Jim. |
Replies:
Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 24 April 2006 at 9:37pm
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Hello Jim Re Fairmile D's,unfortunately the last known survivor,a houseboat called Luna Sea (ex RAF LRRC 029 ex RN MTB 682 )was broken up at her berth in Shoreham in the summer of 2003,having deteriorated too badly to repair.She was replaced with the Schutze Class minesweeper Fische.For pics and info buy a copy of Philip Simons' "Retired on The River",available through The Small Craft Group of the World Ship Society.Look forward to seeing your pic of Grey Hull. Regards,Christian. |
Posted By: Pioneer
Date Posted: 04 May 2006 at 2:37pm
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Here are some shots showing the disintegration of 'D' ex-MTB 683 - sad viewing - but a little still remains at May 2006
The remains of what once was a classic of British Coastal Forces is just above the top right red car. ------------- Pioneer - Forum Moderator |
Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 05 May 2006 at 9:39am
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Hello,
Just seen the great shots of the ex D at Chatham posted by pioneer, I have a couple of shoreside shots I took in the early 90's, she then came up for sale, I had no money then, but she then caught fire and you see what remains, such a shame that none of this classic, as you say, example of war time coastal forces vessels now remain, I wish that perhaps just one was around "somewhere" so that we could have had a chance at saving one, but unfortunatly, that is the position of so many historic craft, even if only one remains, there is not the resources to save them.
John Kempton |
Posted By: Jim
Date Posted: 08 May 2006 at 11:18am
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Hi Guys the "Grey Painted hull" in Dumbarton is a Vosper 68 RTTL She is afloat and in good order,I am off for the week so i will get the chance to photo her. Sad to hear about the last Dog boat end,pity if that was the last one.Great to see the pic's cheers Pioneer. I am told by a pal of mine of a old Hulk up the West Coast type unknown will be up that way soon,think I will have a search on a day off!
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Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 08 May 2006 at 11:46am
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Hi Jim Vosper 68ft RTTL survivors are (locations correct in 2005): ex 2748 "Flying Dream" being restored at Plymouth. ex 2751 "Phoenix" being restored at a secret location (south coast) was previously on The Hamble. ex 2752 (or 2758 depending on who you talk to) "Barracuda" at Malta. ex 2753 Dad's "Flywood" at Gibraltar. ex 2757 Static exhibit at Hendon RAF Museum (now joined by Pinnace 1374). ex 2768 Laid up at Malta having served as Customs Launch "C-68". ex 2770 "Osprey" at Preston. ex 2771 Laid up at Malta,ex "C-71". I wonder which one you have spotted,most likely Osprey.The above info supplied by Donald Smith,RAF Marine Craft Historian. Regards,Christian |
Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 12 May 2006 at 12:56pm
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Osprey in service
Hi Jim,Re Grey Hull-this is the only pic I have of Osprey,not a very good one I'm afraid.Her distinguishing features seem to be the extension to the back of the deckhouse and the guardrails running around the roof.Is this the boat you saw? Regards,Christian. |
Posted By: Jim
Date Posted: 13 May 2006 at 10:25pm
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Hi Christian Looks like her, I.m trying to get the pics down to size to get them on. She has been in Dumbarton for about two years!(Not to sure about my source) and has had a lot of work done to her in the Marina she was out of the water for a few months in 2005. looks grand at the moment! I am told that an other MTB type was getting worked on there last year??? the story goes on!
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Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 14 May 2006 at 6:15pm
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Hi Jim I think your source is absolutely right,you can just make out "Sandpoint Marina" (Dumbarton) painted on the hoist,and this pic is no newer than 2003. Re other MTB-type,we'll have to try to track her down. Regards,Christian |
Posted By: Jim
Date Posted: 14 May 2006 at 7:50pm
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Well you were of course correct! It is the Osprey. (I should have read the sign,but that would be too easy!) Thanks Christian for the offer to help me fix my Pics it seems a waste to get to show the Osprey as she is now. The Owner had another MTB/RTTL Vosper called "Wigeon" fate unknown anyone help? And the West Coast Highlands on the road to Mallag (sorry for spelling) can be seen from the road and in known to the locals as "The German gun boat"I will investigate! (Quick Update,as of 14/6/06 This hull was cut up last year as the "chap" who lived in it was put in a home....the hull was a motor boat and was removed from a battleship at Scapa Flow,thus the German link a nice chap from the local council e-mailed me to pass on this info...another dead end! bugger) An MTB was seen in Girvin Harbour last month,one of the boats that lay in Irvine for years?,will be down that way soon so pic to follow. I have found a boat of 55/60 foot in a small private marinia (Soon to close) in Dumbarton called "Diana II" was called to sevice WWII built of Alu with a hull very like a CMB built in the 30s is said to been used by Edward and Mrs Simpson more info/Pic to follow fine looking hull. I am hearing of all sorts of tales of boats up here in various places,as I get them i will try to investigate and get pics if possible.
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Posted By: Pioneer
Date Posted: 14 May 2006 at 10:46pm
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Hurry up with the pictures, I can hardly wait - Best Regards ------------- Pioneer - Forum Moderator |
Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 14 May 2006 at 11:11pm
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Jim's wonderful pics of the very sound-looking Osprey.Well worth the wait. P.S. Jim,see http://www.riverthames.co.uk/boat/sale/toughs/private_b.htm - http://www.riverthames.co.uk/boat/sale/toughs/private_b.htm look at Bon Partout,another pre-war CMB-type private yacht,slightly smaller than Diana. |
Posted By: Jim
Date Posted: 14 May 2006 at 11:11pm
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Sorry Pioneer The Pics were too big Sent them by E Mail to Christian to reduce in size, Only got Osprey so far....hunting the rest down...
Chistian Nice one,your a star great to see the pic's Ok to put on the Forum will get the pics of this west coast "Mystery German" next week should be up that way on Thursday.
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Posted By: Pioneer
Date Posted: 15 May 2006 at 1:03pm
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Certainly well worth the wait - superb! Any news on the 'MTB' type up there - I understand it may be an ex 'Dark' - fingers are crossed. ------------- Pioneer - Forum Moderator |
Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 15 May 2006 at 1:08pm
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RTTL 2757 looking very much better now,all volunteer work too,and accompanied by 63' General Service Pinnace 1374,at RAF Museum,Hendon.
You can certainly see where the hull form for the RTTL came from,Vosper experimental MTB 538 prior to redesignation as FPB1602. |
Posted By: Jim
Date Posted: 19 May 2006 at 7:26pm
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Heading to Girvin tomorrow after work,with camera..... hope its there! Will hunt as many down as i can before Aug, going abroad for a while. The Hulk up on the Oban Rd sounds promising got three sound sightings.The only worry is it is said if you go near it a nutter with a shot gun threatens you!!(He stays in another hulk next to it) sound like FUN!!!!
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Posted By: Pioneer
Date Posted: 15 May 2007 at 5:38pm
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This picture has emerged of LRRC 030 - found in a Junk Shop. As you will see it has the scallops in the Bow (not visible on the Chatham "D" images on page 1 of this Topic).
------------- Pioneer - Forum Moderator |
Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 15 May 2007 at 6:19pm
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Hi Pioneer,
Great photograph, as you say, the D at Chatham had lost its torpedoe scallops, but what a great find. We found the commissioning photograph of the Medway Queen in a sale by pure chance, a great find as you can imagine.
John |
Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 15 May 2007 at 7:06pm
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Hi Pioneer All the LRRC conversions were based on 1943 and later boats, i.e. all had scallops. MTB 683 presumably had hers covered over when she was sheathed in plywood, a tricky one to spot as her line of portholes was then continued where the scallops were! Rgds, Christian.
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Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 15 May 2007 at 7:39pm
| We have to thank the people who bought old Fairmile D's for use as houseboat's otherwise they would have been extinct years ago, their life was only supposed to be around five years and the build cost factor was calculated around that fact so some of the materials used were not normally used in boatbuilding which sometimes lead to problem's with the hull integrity, unlike British Power Boat's who stuck to the "old fashioned" but expensive method's of building boat's that is why there are more wartime B.Power hulls about today. |
Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 15 May 2007 at 8:29pm
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Yes but... There's stacks of Fairmile B's still around, and they were built using the same methods and materials. Most were/are in commercial service and/or private yachts, operating in salt water, and have been quite well maintained as such, whereas the D's were considered too ugly/ungainly for such service and ended up in freshwater creeks as houseboats on the whole, so I think it is fairer to say that they were mostly used and abused and left to rot which has led to their extinction, rather than the methods and materials used which have proved quite long-lasting in the B's. |
Posted By: marksaab
Date Posted: 15 May 2007 at 10:32pm
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Hi Never really considered the issue about some war boats being more "attractive" as private boats post war but how true it is, the displacement hull Fairmile A and B's do make for pleasing lines for yachts the exception maybe the lovely Whaleback that I see is still up for sale! John Lamberts description of the Fairmile build system in "Allied Coastal Forces" is superb and somehow seems very "advanced" for its day with each boat kit broken down to individual truck loads timed to arrive at the builders when required a process common place in modern car assembly now.
------------- Only yield when you must, never "give up the ship," but fight on to the last "with a stiff upper lip!" |
Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 16 May 2007 at 10:02am
| There is no doubt the production methods used in the Fairmile's were advanced for their day and the other Fairmile's types are still around and looking good however, the vast majority of the "D's" were got rid of fairly sharpish by the Services becuase of Dry Rot problems in the hull which due to their construction and materials used it was not cost effective to eradicate as far as I am aware, The same problem did not occur with the "B,s" |
Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 16 May 2007 at 11:09am
| What I forgot to mention was that it was the extensive use of laminated materials on the "Ds" in particular that was the problem as the glues were not as good as today's, it also affected Mosquito's were joint,s failed and hundred's of Mosquito's were simply burnt after there engine's were chopped out, bearing in mind wood was a very valuable material after the War and in this area Merlin engines were tipped out of their packing cases and dumped because the wooden case was more valuable than the engine inside |
Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 16 May 2007 at 11:00pm
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Very interesting re the D above, did not know they used laminates and as you say, if the glue is not upto it, then big problems, even today ply can vary according to the quality of the glue. Did not know about the business with the Merlin engines and cases, now of course we would love the engines and not think twice about the wood!.
John |
Posted By: marksaab
Date Posted: 16 May 2007 at 11:29pm
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The story about the Mossies is interesting, very few survive compared with "normal" planes of the same era, used similar build techniques to a lot of boats though, composite fuselage with ply/balsa/ply, wings mainly spruce, when left standing the fuselage went first the wings lasted a bit longer, in humid areas i.e. jungle, they just "un peeled" but the pilots refused to stop flying them! There is a true story about an RAF safety inspector who when he saw what state they were in simply took a saw a cut the outer wings off to stop them being flown!! Get to the Mosquito Museum in Hatfield if you can, its a mile or so from me, very interesting! Lots of them were at Hatfield after the war they were simply cut up with chainsaws and burnt! M ------------- Only yield when you must, never "give up the ship," but fight on to the last "with a stiff upper lip!" |
Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 17 May 2007 at 9:09am
| The thing about wartime built boats is that it is best policy to buy one that was built early on in the War when the pre War bought stocks of timber were still available as later on they just used any wood (within reason) to keep going knowing that their Service life would be quite short if they were not written off first due battle damage or being sunk. That is why A,s B,s and C,s were well built ,D,s on the other hand were only expected to have a short life and as you are most probably aware even the fairly new D,s that were converted to L.R.R.C.s were not even brought back from Fanara, Egypt, they were left out there as Officer,s Quarter,s becuase they were expendable. Even after the War wood was in very short supply as well as accomodation and that is why people bought boats to live on, some of them turned over Miss Peggoty style, getting back to the subject it is thank's to these people that so many hulls have survived, just look how H.S.L. 102 is now. |
Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 17 May 2007 at 9:23am
| Thanks Tramontana, that is clear to me now. Unseasoned wood explains their relatively shorter lifespan. The same applies to early and late 60ft GS Pinnaces and 72ft HDMLs, in addition it seems some yard's boats were generally shorter-lived than others, so perhaps some yards had better access to pre-war stockpiles than others, or simply stored and treated their stocks differently. |
Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 17 May 2007 at 3:35pm
| Christian, as you are aware Scott- Paine was not a fool when it came to making money, look at the deal he made on the Packard's, he also I understand bought a complete cargo of wood before the War started, that is why in my view a British Power Boat hull was and still is one of the best in the business and even now a good 2nd ,3rd, 4th---- hand buy over 60yrs on. Other company built hulls require a bit more investigation (when&where built) their Mantra was as long as it floated and you could fire a gun or launch a torpedo or both of it then it was cost effective in a wartime situation. |
Posted By: spacemutt
Date Posted: 04 September 2010 at 5:40pm
I know this an old thread, but thought I'd update on what happened to these. The MGB was actually an Air Sea Rescue boat, possibly a 100 type, though I recall a step in the deck in line with the wheel-house. She was called the Luckey Dollar (yes, spelled wrong) and we helped raise her when she sank in the upper basin. When the harbour was cleared of old boats to be drained for repair work, she was towed up to Paisley and sat on a mooring there. She deteriorated and was eventually destroyed. I remember being told she was the only surviving type with the original wheel-house. The Whale-back was called Zakana. She was abandoned when the harbour was drained, and we ended up owning her. She was in a really poor state, the deck had been covered in concrete to keep the rain out and she was rotten. But we moored her in the outer harbour with a view of finding someone who might be able to save her. But during a storm she was blown on to the shore and dried out at low tide. This caused her to heal over, and when the tide came in, her open exhaust ports flooded the hull. When the tide went out again the weight of the water inside ripped the whole of the starboard side out. I have pictures somewhere. She quickly fell apart and there was nothing but a few port-holes left to save. A sad end to two lovely boats. |
Jim wrote:Posted By: spacemutt
Date Posted: 04 September 2010 at 5:41pm
| I also have some pictures of Osprey, the big Air-Sea Rescue launch in the Leven. |
Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 05 September 2010 at 7:32pm
come on then, Post the pics up  ------------- masbie something in the water. www.freewebs.com/masb32/ |
Posted By: spacemutt
Date Posted: 05 September 2010 at 8:43pm
| My scanner is part of a printer/scanner combo, and it won't scan because it's out of ink!! Stupid thing... I should have some more ink arriving tomorrow or Tuesday. :) |
Posted By: spacemutt
Date Posted: 06 September 2010 at 8:42pm
Pictures now in the Bowling boats thread. 
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Posted By: majorkong
Date Posted: 10 October 2010 at 12:39pm
This is my old boat!!! I would be interested in buying the photo if the owner is interested. I owned the one on Chatham empire pier. Interesting fact, the old girl had one more rescue in her, we got two folks out of the mud and got medals for it. They made a Rescue 999 about it. |
Posted By: Graham
Date Posted: 05 July 2015 at 4:19pm
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MTB 683. My parents bought this boat in 1957 for £250. We spent the next 20 + years living on it and converting it into a very comfortable houseboat with Central Heating etc. We always called it MTB 030 which is what is engraved on the brass ships plaque which I still have. I could go on for hours with details of all the work we did on it until it was sold, but should anyone be interested please let me know. I remember 683 was scribed on the side as well as the RAF roundal when it was converted to a high speed rescue craft. I was very upset to see it in such a poor state. |
Posted By: majorkong
Date Posted: 05 July 2015 at 10:01pm
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hi there I bought this boat from Norman Niblock and lived on it for about 4 years before we sold it to an artist who did something really silly, not sure what, but we were VERY happy on it and you did an excellent job rebuilding it. I would be interested in buying the ships plaque if you are selling OR can offer a swap of a video we made the day before we bought it which shows it all in detail. ANYWAY hope to hear from you and I share your disgust that the moron did this to her. |
Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 06 July 2015 at 4:32pm
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Hi there, All great stuff, thanks for posting, drove past the empire wharf the other day on my way to Staples, now riverside where she lay developed into empire wharf flats! remains removed/destroyed/buried....artist silly thing? my understanding was she was being converted into a café?! but then caught fire and burned to the mud line, Johnk |
Posted By: KKinnett
Date Posted: 15 November 2015 at 3:13pm
Trying one last way to post a photo of A.S.R.L.  ------------- |
Posted By: KKinnett
Date Posted: 15 November 2015 at 3:16pm
Specs from back of photo of A.S.R.L. 030 ------------- |
Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 16 November 2015 at 4:36pm
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Hi there, Many thanks for this post, yes read about the D's being converted as above...great shot on the RN-CFV page of six D's at the Le Havre U-boat pens...advised by admin there they were using their depth charges for mine clearing... Johnk |
Posted By: KKinnett
Date Posted: 17 November 2015 at 1:36am
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Thanks to Pioneer for helping with the post. I can provide higher resolution copies if anyone is interested. Photo courtesy of my grandfather: Kenneth F. Massey. I will investigate whether the matting can be removed to provide more photographic detail. If anyone has more information (or photos) on the '030' or as the original '683', I would be grateful. |
Posted By: marksaab
Date Posted: 15 January 2016 at 4:14pm
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Hi Been a while since I posted here! Interesting that the description of her says "4 x Packard Merlin" Did they re-engine her? Always though D,s had Packard 4M 2500 engines Mark ------------- Only yield when you must, never "give up the ship," but fight on to the last "with a stiff upper lip!" |
Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 15 January 2016 at 4:45pm
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Hi there, Something perhaps really of nothing, sorting a few papers at home, underneath a pile found the proposal by Peter Webster for a replica D, MTB 718....he got as far as plans I believe ex the late John Lambert in fact, talked with a boat yard....not heard from Peter for a while now.......he said he had even got a "promise" of new engines.....but as per, nothing heard of late.....closest we have, which is good for sure, are the Fairmile B's.... Johnk |