60’ Admiralty Seagoing Motorboat
Printed From: BMPT Forum
Category: General Discussion
Forum Name: Where Are Those Boats Now
Forum Description: Tell everybody where those old boats are
URL: http://www.bmpt.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=380
Printed Date: 26 March 2026 at 11:36pm
Topic: 60’ Admiralty Seagoing Motorboat
Posted By: FlyByWire
Subject: 60’ Admiralty Seagoing Motorboat
Date Posted: 02 July 2007 at 4:32pm
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You just can't move for WW2 boats in Falmouth at the moment :) This is moored about a hundred feet or so from Cano Nero... http://www.worldwartwoboats.com/ - http://www.worldwartwoboats.com/ It *really* looks the part, too - fantastically well looked after and restored! Paul |
Replies:
Posted By: marksaab
Date Posted: 03 July 2007 at 9:16am
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What a lovely boat! A fantastic achievement by a dedicated team! The restoration pics make good viewing and indicate the kind of work involved in getting Ambra back in the water!!
------------- Only yield when you must, never "give up the ship," but fight on to the last "with a stiff upper lip!" |
Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 03 July 2007 at 10:12am
 A very nice bit of workmanship, any photos of her at Falmouth. I am sure I saw this boat when she was fishing at Falmouth when I was waiting to join a ship there.
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Posted By: rozm2
Date Posted: 03 July 2007 at 10:55am
| It shows just holw good 1262 could look if she was restored in a similar way, great looking boats, they've done one of the best restorations out there! |
Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 04 July 2007 at 12:36pm
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Hi,
Indeed, Asco now resident at Falmouth and of course a superb job done on her restoration, really need to see her in the flesh, have corresponded with the owners for some time, and thier web-site is great, showing the work in progress. Fantastic when you see what she was converted to before and the work to put her back to origional condition, a real inspiration to all trying to save and restore and indeed run our marine heritage.
JohnK |
Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 04 July 2007 at 12:50pm
Asco is proof if proof is needed of a restoration with no half measures as lives could be at stake, has the owner reckoned up how much it has cost him yet with/without labour charges? The only way the Irvine pinnace could be restored is to have somebody with very,very deep pocket's, there comes a time in a boat's life when they are just to far gone and this pinnace is well past that stage and has been for some time. As previously stated the Scottish Museum should be ashamed of themselves
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Posted By: northeastuser
Date Posted: 04 July 2007 at 1:16pm
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It depends on what your eventual aim for the vessel is. Look at the Carrick ex City of Adelaide. Also at Irving. She will never go back to sea without loosing her historical integrity. However she can be restored for display just like the Cutty Sark. However the Cutty Sark was a national treasure because of her historical content. Due to her fire she will now be rebuild and I bet she will be almost capable of being sent back to sea, E.G no historical fabric left. What I’m trying to say is the Carrick wont be displayed like the Cutty due to lack of interest (though she is in many ways much more important) and the fact that she can’t be used in an active fashion without losing her historical fabric. Now that argument has been sidestepped by the Cutty Sark yet the Carrick will end up cut up into sections and spread around the world. An historically accurate ship wont be saved but a bloody copy will end up sitting in dry dock!!! My personal view is that the national and historical attitude to saving ships/vessels need to be changed if our grandkids are to see any of these vessels. Even copies. The Cutty Sark is a prime example of what should take place. Preserve as much as possible until its unpractical and then replace and restore, even if you end up with a copy. Don’t be too fascinated by the thought of keeping ships sea worthy, Christ how many people will have seen the Cutty Sark over the years if she’d been at sea? Perversely enough in the years to come we may just see the Cutty Sark spread her canvas and got for a sale. As for the 1262, well yes if she ever goes to sea she will end up a replica, not such a bad thing. Here’s a strange thought, the remains of the 1262 last in various ownership for the next 20 years, all the other pinnaces are long gone, who’s the idiot then? Having said that id happily take the Asco in trade J ------------- |
Posted By: rafwebfoot
Date Posted: 04 July 2007 at 3:35pm
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Oh dear me! If northeaster is who I think he is, has he not now given up on 1262. Knowing her as I do, she was past redemption some years back after being dumped on the quayside at Irvine after sinking in the harbour (whilst under the Museums care). Restoration, conservation, saving for posterity, call it what you like, is an expensive operation, in both monetary terms, labour, and availability of materials. In addition, unless one is just after a 'boat' accurate information has to be found with which to do the job properly. This too costs money, and one should expect to pay for this, because whoever owns it has more than likely paid for it themselves in the first place. I commend everyone out there who are the new custodians of these old military craft. Theirs is a labour of love and long may we have like minded folk willing to take on such a challenge. ------------- FAIR WINDS AND A FAVOURABLE TIDE Donald |
Posted By: northeastuser
Date Posted: 04 July 2007 at 5:01pm
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Yes that reminds me, I owe you 30 pounds to cover the copying costs of the information and plans that you so kindly gave me regarding the RAF Pinnace 1262. Head somewhere else sorry. (No excuse I know.) I will attend to it tomorrow. As for giving up on the 1262. Well not just yet. I’m just patching up my cargo boat (MTB 506) in Malta to bring the timber back. Don’t get me wrong, if she is in the way I will arrange for her to be broken, however while the museum is willing to wait for me then she still has a chance. Your more than welcome to put money down on the outcome. ------------- |
Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 04 July 2007 at 7:57pm
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Totally agree with rafwebfoot re labour of love, I recon it should be 'obsession' as you have to be slightly mad to have one (a boat) I have a boat which is floating (I hope) and moves backwards and forewards on her own, It is very sobering watching the rate of knots at which the cash is leaving my bank account without having any work done. I know owning a boat is never a good investment but forcasting the cost of my plans makes me question my sanity. The best way to own a boat is to be given one and leave it on a free mooring (or hard) and do nothing to it, that way you'll never be out of pocket. unfortunately most 'free' things do cost someone money, and when the goodwill wears thin the boat becomes a liability and you normally end up loosing credibility. MASB '32 should be leaving Gib in the next week or two, It will be nice to see where all my money will be going!! ------------- masbie something in the water. www.freewebs.com/masb32/ |
Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 04 July 2007 at 8:07pm
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If 1262 get's rebuilt I will pay you rafwebfoot |
Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 04 July 2007 at 8:13pm
| I will rephrase that, I will compensate northeastuser £30 after he has paid rafwebfoot when 1262 has been refurbished. Game on. I love a bet. |
Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 04 July 2007 at 8:43pm
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I'll have some of that, (the bet not the boat) what are the odds? I would hope I loose which is not normal for a bet. ------------- masbie something in the water. www.freewebs.com/masb32/ |
Posted By: northeastuser
Date Posted: 05 July 2007 at 12:14am
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Lol ok lads thanks for the moral support, well I hope that’s what it was. The situation re Donald and the 30 pound is completely of my own making, simply being negligent. Donald has treat me with nothing but courtesy and respect. If anything a bit to much so repaying him slipped down my priorities. Carelessness has already cost me 60 pound in my attempts to send him payment (long story). But try as I might I can’t really find an suitable reason for delaying payment for what amounts to about 8 months now! Much to my embarrassment it has dragged on a bit to much and its at the top of my priority list for tomorrow. Hopefully if I need Donald’s help in the future he will be happy to accept payment in advance! I also hope Donald accepts my apology for being such an arse! The way I see boat ownership is that no matter what you get your pleasure from its going to cost you an arm and a leg. I just happen to like working on them rather more than I like using them!! So if I spend 10k making a Pinnace replica out of the 1262 over 12 months its no more than what most of you end up doing while enjoying your boat. I have a sneaky feeling I may just enjoy launching the 1262 a dam sight more than any of you will enjoy motoring about in your boats!! Clive how’s the ’32 getting home? ------------- |
Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 05 July 2007 at 1:37pm
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Hi Billy, We are all here to support each other, morally at least i'm sure. I must say that for 10k your pinnace replica is going to be very small and will probably need an outbaord to stay in budget! good luck all the same. '32 is being shipped (13.5k) to Southampton then skippered very generously (FOC) to lowestoft. ------------- masbie something in the water. www.freewebs.com/masb32/ |
Posted By: northeastuser
Date Posted: 05 July 2007 at 2:41pm
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10k will go a long way. For example mahogany ( or what is claimed to be mahogany) is 600 per m3 in Malta.. I believe the nearest hard wood is about 3 times that in the uk. so 10k in timber is immediately worth 30k back home lol. The hull of the 1262 will weigh in at about 5 tons.. guess that’s about 7 m3..ok that’s not allowing for wastage. 7m3 say £4200 in timber.?oh hell lets double it again beacuse my figures are all crap.=£8400?? Labour == zero. Engines…erm I might know where to find a couple of reasonable priced ford sabre motors this time next year. All pie I the sky and just chucking figures about of course. ------------- |
Posted By: FlyByWire
Date Posted: 05 July 2007 at 3:00pm
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Purely a question out of interest, but if you're going to import ten grands worth of mahogany into the UK, surely you'll be stopped by customs and made to pay some sort of duty? Also, that much mahogany must weigh a fair bit; what are the carriage costs? Heresy to say this, I know, but 10,000 would buy a lot of tanalised timber and fibreglass... Paul |
Posted By: northeastuser
Date Posted: 05 July 2007 at 3:25pm
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how can customs stop me for buying timber from another EU state??? I don't think i need an import cert if im buying from france...no difrence..we are all in the same EU now. fredom of trade etc.anyway its a personal posesion, not for resale.its a flatpacked 1262!! ------------- |
Posted By: FlyByWire
Date Posted: 05 July 2007 at 3:27pm
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>its a flatpacked 1262 :) |
Posted By: northeastuser
Date Posted: 05 July 2007 at 3:46pm
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no seriously before i did anything like that id have a lot of paperwork and regs to check..not sure its worth the waste of time.. p.s 5 tons of mahogany weigh about 5 tons..or there abouts. just guessing you understand! (free carriage if you can find a boat heading this way) ------------- |
Posted By: FlyByWire
Date Posted: 05 July 2007 at 4:03pm
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>5 tons of mahogany weigh about 5 tons Quite so, and well done you on pointing that out - I thought you'd said how much you'd got somewhere, I just couldn't see it :) |
Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 05 July 2007 at 4:03pm
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not really wanting to get into too much of a debate about this but if it was that easy to make money on the world wood market I'm sure there would be more people doing it. also if the plan is to bring the wood over on 506 then will she handle the extra weight and how much extra diesel will it use? also what if she stays in (or under) the Med. Do you need a licence to import hardwooods? I recon Paul could be right, re tanalised wood and epoxy, ASCO is epoxied, she is reputed to be a fine vessel. ------------- masbie something in the water. www.freewebs.com/masb32/ |
Posted By: northeastuser
Date Posted: 05 July 2007 at 4:29pm
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You are right of course epoxy is fine , however you have to find something to epoxy to, and im just not sure that’s possible with the 1262. My take on the timber import situation is that in the UK and member stated of the E.U. licences are required to import certain restricted species of hardwood. However Malta has just joined the E.U. and not all import restrictions are in place, E.G they are being phased in to give Malta time to adapt. There will be rules to stop people buying it to make money on I bet. Now I have no idea what the situation would be to buy timber from Malta and bring it to the UK to sell on, however as any of you who have bought items from within another E.U member state for their own personal use know, as long as you have a receipt issued in a E.U member state then you’re ok. E.G no more duty or paperwork. All this is assuming it truly is mahogany. Of course before I go down that route I would check it out properly. No it would not be practical to bring it back on the 506, think of the insurance claim!! However I suspect she could take the weight without problems. Consider the weight of ford engines vrs Packard’s!! the main gun alone weighed around a ton and I have no idea what the torp tubes weigh. She will be several tone lighter than she was a few months ago anyway. ------------- |
Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 05 July 2007 at 4:50pm
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Hi there,
All good stuff above, interesting re MASB 32 shipping back here, not to bad I guess, lot safer that steaming her back!, pity you could not consider the delights of the River Medway, we have Thamesport container terminal, despite the name it is on the Medway. Regards mahogany, interesting bit on the National Historic Ships site on Cutty Sark, they are getting thiers from a 19th century hospital being demolished in India!, well, with all that money going in, you can do a lot. Oh well, as said before, we can but dream, with all that timber how many repairs and replicas we could do....
JohnK |
Posted By: rozm2
Date Posted: 05 July 2007 at 5:00pm
I believe Medusa is using a similar source, thiers is the decks of an old passenger liner scrapped in India, I believe about 12 tons of teak! |
johnk wrote:Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 05 July 2007 at 5:34pm
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Hi Rozm2, Indeed, now you mention it you are quite right, Medusa is doing that, so with a bit of thought, it is possible to get hold of this sort of timber, not sure of course about costs though, and they have secured and are spending a lottery grant, but they are doing a superb job and using quality timber will ensure the vessel will last in good shape, far better than origionally built I suspect, given wartime conditions and variable quality of supplies. JohnK |
Posted By: rafwebfoot
Date Posted: 05 July 2007 at 10:10pm
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Hi its me again, all this talk of real mahogany is making me drool over my PC. I do agree with northeastuser about his sums. A 60ft Pinnace diaplaces 24.5 tons in operational trim, so after deducting weight of fuel, engines and fresh water, mast, winch and various fittings, she will still weigh in around 12 tons- a lot of mahogany and brass screws. I do have access to about 6 reconditioned ex military Perkins C.6s complete with gearboxes if anyone out there is interested. Fair winds, and a following sea. Donald ------------- FAIR WINDS AND A FAVOURABLE TIDE Donald |
Posted By: dgray
Date Posted: 05 July 2007 at 10:19pm
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Hello Donald, Are these S6's? I may be looking for a pair for 365 or a set of 4 cyl diesels for my little 32' BPB boat. Please pm me if you can help. Thanks ------------- Don Only a number, not even a name. How shall posterity hear of thy fame? |
Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 06 July 2007 at 11:17am
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Hi Donald, please excuse my ignorance, how much hp do theese perkins have and are they marinised? I have two handed perkins H/L 6354 turbo with 1:1 bourgwarners. Any takers? ------------- masbie something in the water. www.freewebs.com/masb32/ |
Posted By: northeastuser
Date Posted: 06 July 2007 at 11:24am
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"I do agree with northeastuser about his sums" you mean you agree with the bit where I said they were crap!! Seriously, how much do you think the stripped 1262 weighs?
I wonder if they will take her back and give me the CofA? ------------- |
Posted By: dgray
Date Posted: 06 July 2007 at 12:34pm
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Clive, The engines are Perkind P6's (60hp). Regards ------------- Don Only a number, not even a name. How shall posterity hear of thy fame? |
Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 06 July 2007 at 3:16pm
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I should imagine they are way more than 60 hp. Is a P6 a 6 cylinder version of the P3 I have in my Fordson superdexta tractor? that would make an interesting conversion! the 6354's I have are probably mid 1970's they are HL (horizontal laying) this makes them fit better under the floor basically by means of a modified sump and oil pickup as well as different marinising gear. ------------- masbie something in the water. www.freewebs.com/masb32/ |
Posted By: dgray
Date Posted: 06 July 2007 at 4:49pm
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Hi Clive, When new, the P6(M) was rated 64HP/2000rpm and the P4(M) at 43HP/2000rpm. Much smaller than the S6's (I'm told). Cheers ------------- Don Only a number, not even a name. How shall posterity hear of thy fame? |
Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 09 July 2007 at 1:38pm
| Clive, forget about the Perkin's Horizontal's, from what I have read in various publication's there seem's to be a shortage of bit's for them |
Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 09 July 2007 at 1:58pm
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Cheers, This either means that they are worth good money as spares or no one will want them as bits are hard to get! ------------- masbie something in the water. www.freewebs.com/masb32/ |