MTB630
Printed From: BMPT Forum
Category: Boats (In alphabetical order)
Forum Name: Motor Torpedo Boats
Forum Description: Discussion on Motor Torpedo Boats
URL: http://www.bmpt.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=491
Printed Date: 26 March 2026 at 7:55pm
Topic: MTB630
Posted By: JamesDaly
Subject: MTB630
Date Posted: 04 February 2008 at 12:50am
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Hi all, this is my first post on the forum. I've been reading it for a while, and thought I would register. I'm a military history researcher, and at the moment I am writing some articles for a military history magazine. I've managed to get hold of a fascinating account by a young Naval Officer who was a midhsipman onboard MTB630, part of the 55th MTB flotilla. This boat guided in the minesweepers to sword beach, the idea being that a wooden vessel would be less likely to detonate mines. This account is facinating and I am working on an article on the exploits of the MTB's during Operation Neptune. MTB630 was a Fairmile Dog Boat, which apparently was donated to the girlguides after the war as a training boat. Already after a couple of days of research this should be a very interesting story. I've found quite a few useful illustrations and other sources. I would be very grateful for any suggestions anyone might have. In particular I would be very interested in getting some shots of a surviving Dog boat, indeed if any survive. I will be sure to post up anything interesting that I find. Cheers! |
Replies:
Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 04 February 2008 at 8:51am
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Hi Jamesdaly,
Most interesting your above, be interested to see the article at some time, so the girl guides got a D boat! presume it was minus engines as with many also used by the sea cadets as HQs. For technial details and some history on the Ds see John Lambers Anatomy of the Ship series, see web-site on the links page, unfortunatley there are no whole D's left, bits of one at Chatham on the river Medway, and recently shots of one in Norway,bot on this forum. Hope this of interest, JohnK |
Posted By: JamesDaly
Date Posted: 04 February 2008 at 9:10am
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Hi JohnK, thanks for your reply. its a shame theres not a complete D boat left anywhere, I was discussing the other day with the curator at the D-Day Museum that everyone seems to automatically think of Vospers when they think of MTB's. As for it being used by the Girl Guides, I actually managed to find a picture of it being visited by the Queen (Princess Elizabeth as she was then) and Princess Margaret on a random Russian photo agency! |
Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 04 February 2008 at 10:40am
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Hello James I don't think the photo on the Russian site is a dogboat, as they did not have fore and aft deck planking; http://www.fotobank.ru/image/T013-4538.html - http://www.fotobank.ru/image/T013-4538.html These photos are of MTB 630 on the River Dart in 1948; http://www.jamd.com/search?text=river%20dart - http://www.jamd.com/search?text=river%20dart
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Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 04 February 2008 at 10:52am
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Hi James, No problem, indeed Vospers seem to come to mind with a lot of people, but of course many others ie British Powerboat Co. Yes, a pity we have no D's surviving, bit of a bee in my bonet, but there it is, of course we have other great examples of coastal forces craft around MTB 102, HDML Medusa worth looking up, links again on this web-site.
JohnK |
Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 04 February 2008 at 11:03am
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Hi Christian and James,
Just been onto the sites, indeed, the first shot of the Princess coming aboard is some much larger craft than a D but the ones on the Dart are much more likely of 630. Great shots anyway, odd on a Russian site,
JohnK |
Posted By: JamesDaly
Date Posted: 04 February 2008 at 12:11pm
| thats a shame about the Princess shots. Theres some nice images on Getty of MTB630, as far as I can tell they are the only surviving images that are definitely of the boat. There are a few in the IWM collection - unfortunately they arent on their online collection, but they are in Jefferson's book on Coastal Forces - of unidentifiable boats from the 55th flotilla moored at HMS Hornet, with the distinctive shark teeth on the bow. |
Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 05 February 2008 at 12:38pm
It looks like something the size of a Cruiser or possibly a Battleship the Princesses are boarding, nice "Tiddley" bow on the Jack in the background, I understand from a reliable source that the part "D" is still around in Norway johnk 
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Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 05 February 2008 at 1:39pm
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Thanks for that Ron, well, Norway is quite a step! understand from recent correspondence elsewhere, people have bits of the one ex Shoreham, but the Norway vessel looked a bit more complete at least from the Starboard side, the Chatham vessel is really on the bow section with a bit of hull from there back a few feet. As talked about before, just trying to flag up with others, that this stuff is still kicking around before it is all gone, as so much of our historic heritage has already, except perhaps if you used to carry tea and you can get an "emergency" 10 mill! Johnk |
Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 06 February 2008 at 6:41am
Johnk, trying to get an exact location to see if it can be "googled". In regards to Dog boats and Sea Cadets/Scouts, the boats were only on loan and I did go aboard the one at Scarborough, as far as I remember her engineroom and fuel tanks were stripped out and the area was planked out and used as interior quarter deck/ classroom, she must have had her stern gear still in place (possibly minus propellors) as she was moored against the East Wall of the Outer harbour which is the only part of the area that did not fully dry out (the entrance has since been blocked off). Our boat could take the ground and we moored right inside next to the Vincent Pier whereas my Uncles boat was twin screw and could not so he was moored behind the "D" which is how I come to be aboard her. As far as I remember she was stripped taken into the Bay burnt and sank which is I think what happened to most of them , unlike Fairmile B's they did not appear to have a lot of Post Service interest if someone was looking for a large Motor Yacht in fact I can't ever remember seeing one in Private hands although some most probably were "but not a lot". Certainly if there was any in Private hands they would be in the Med doing a bit of "Midnight Trading" in tea bags and the like In regards to Vosper and M.T.B.'s, to use n.e.u.'s term it is a bit generic like Biro or Hoover as a lot of people think Vosper when talking about M.T.B.'s which is a credit to the Company however in the years I have been looking around Marina's both here and Abroad for Wartime built boats I can count on one hand the times I have come across a Vosper whereas B.P.B. built boats seem to last forever, they were certainly never built to last over 60yrs, I think it was 10yrs at the very most if they were not blown out of the water first11
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Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 06 February 2008 at 5:48pm
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Johnk my reliable source tells me the "D" is at/on an Island South of Trondhiem called Ellingsoy that's the good news the bad news is that neither the Google or Flash Earth appear to be detailed enough to pick out 1/2 a "D" sat on the putty. However someone may know different!!
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Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 06 February 2008 at 10:59pm
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Hi Ron,
Thanks for that, well, if she is still there.....
JohnK |
Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 06 February 2008 at 11:01pm
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Hi Again, Also thanks for post on page 2 which I have just seen! JohnK |
Posted By: JamesDaly
Date Posted: 07 February 2008 at 11:31am
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Thanks for your input guys. From what I've been reading - and there a lot of interesting literature on the D boats - it seems like they were definitely very unsung. Its a big shame there isnt one somewhere for people to see and appreciate, but I guess when they were disposing of them in the post-war period they weren't thinking too much about posterity. I'll keep you updated on my research, there are a few files in the National Archives - Damage and action reports, and a lot of detailed Naval plans for Operation Neptune - that I'm going to have a look at when I can get to Kew. |
Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 07 February 2008 at 8:28pm
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Inded James, glad the forum was of interest and use, as mentioned one survived albeit in poor condition till a few years ago, and as you say, nothing thought of really in terms of history, vessels surving today mostly down to being houseboats, exception perhaps as private yatchs like Medusa ie kept running post service.
Johnk |
Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 08 February 2008 at 9:59am
johnk, time for you to book a holiday in Norway!! , great place and great people but a bit expensive, I spent a fortune chasing the "Whaleback" in Spain, what with booking the Family Holiday at Estarte and then hiring a car to look for her when she was moored in a large Marina complex just South of Rosas, it was well worth it to see her afloat and it is a great shame she now lies in a Scrapyard.
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Posted By: JamesDaly
Date Posted: 08 February 2008 at 10:50am
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I wish there was a D Boat I could have a look at, just one somewhere... it would help put all these stories im reading about into context. Maybe I'm being very naive here but if only I had the time, money and expertise to make a replica... from what i have been reading it sounds like they were built in a similar way to the Horsa Glider, prefabricated in sections then assembled at a boatyard
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Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 08 February 2008 at 1:48pm
| James, "D" boats were built more like a Mosquito and suffered the same problems with pre-fabricated glued joints as well as Dry Rot because of poor ventilation in the bilge area, the type of woods used were not ideal for the marine enviroment but as long as it floated and you could fire a gun or torpedo off it that's all that mattered as they were not built to last. If you had the money to build one ( barring Newson's) you would have to go abroad like Turkey who still build some nice wooden craft to order. My understanding is that there is still a large part of a "D" in Norway, so it depends how keen you are to see it, sometimes the cost becomes second place, it was the Fairmile way to have parts built and sent to a central store where the boatbuilder collected the parts he required to build one |
Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 08 February 2008 at 3:58pm
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Hello Guys,
Indeed, if only!, good point Ron re Turkey, they built the Grand Turk replica sailer, now up for sale, agree quite a way to go to Norway, perhaps rely on more wealthy persons to get some upto date shots, now if you get a bit of one and incorporate it into a new structure, could the Heritage Lottery fund be interested....? think I know the answer! but you never know, support for Cutty Sark, sure some "new" bits going into that, steam locos have been done with one plaque or lever as origional bit. JohnK |
Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 08 February 2008 at 6:13pm
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The Medusa lottery application writer seems to have the answer on what is required to get decent funding I was involved in the search for one of the John Deere "Kiwi" Spitfire's which ploughed into a field after a collision during a "dagar, dagar" training sortie, the engine was shattered a broken prop and the cockpit crumpled the size of a milk crate and that is all that was there, it will fly again hopefully with Lottery Funding. The amount of money the Cutty Sark has had it should be in full sail after it is finished, not sat in a Dry Dock!! My task this year is back to Cyprus to have another look at "Cutlass" and the 1/2 Higgins if they are still there. Ron.
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Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 08 February 2008 at 6:53pm
For John Deere read Al, slight confusion with the diesel engine on my part
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Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 09 February 2008 at 8:17am
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Indeed, guy was in free marina paper who heads the Cutty Sark saying was not worth even having her floating as would not be origional enough! still with all that cash and PR, you can do what you like. Just been announced the guys with the SS Manxman althoug I know not a coastal forces craft! have run into a brick wall with her, no support from commercial people or local authorities, only hope an American interest! I can only feel for them, great effort but as I said let down by others who could so easily help, makes you wonder why bother sometimes!. JohnK |
Posted By: JamesDaly
Date Posted: 09 February 2008 at 9:17am
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Its like the old Mary Rose argument I guess. Personally I dont find looking at about 45% of what was once the Mary Rose that interesting, its the artefacts that came with it that bring it to life. There would be a lot of interesting things you could do with a replica, seagoing D Boat.... would be a nice tribute to the guys who sailed in them during the war. Oh well, time to stop dreaming I guess... I've got a student loan to pay off first |
Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 09 February 2008 at 12:16pm
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Know the feeling re debts! agree artefacts are what is best with MR, though more of the hull around than I thought till I saw pictures.
Johnk |
Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 11 February 2008 at 7:19pm
| http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MOTOR-TORPEDO-BOAT-SEA-RANGERS-1947-PRESS-PHOTO_W0QQitemZ330210159632QQihZ014QQcategoryZ48QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MOTOR-TORPEDO-BOAT-SEA-RANGERS-1947-PR ESS-PHOTO_W0QQitemZ330210159632QQihZ014QQcategoryZ48QQssPage NameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem |
Posted By: JamesDaly
Date Posted: 11 February 2008 at 10:15pm
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cheers for that... notice its got one bid on it - would make a good illustration for my article
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Christian wrote: